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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#228126: Sep 9th 2020 at 10:35:31 AM

It's much, MUCH better to come clean. We can forgive mistakes and have many tiems before.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#228127: Sep 9th 2020 at 10:35:59 AM

"I don't want to bring up crucial info because people might yell at me" isn't going to work. I'm not attaching emotion here but this is objectively a massive communication issue.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#228128: Sep 9th 2020 at 10:42:54 AM

Yeah, if you notice something later, just admit you missed it. An honest mistake's better than the sin of omission.

PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#228129: Sep 9th 2020 at 10:43:01 AM

What the hell EP are you talking about? The Man In Black?

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#228130: Sep 9th 2020 at 10:43:31 AM

[up] yes.

I see. Once again, I let irrational fear prevent me from doing something I should have- and ironically got me into the very position I was trying to avoid. From now on, I will communicate any possible candidates I have to someone else so they can double check and make sure I did not miss something- and if I do make a mistake, I will admit it as soon as I can.

Edited by MasterN on Sep 9th 2020 at 10:47:39 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#228131: Sep 9th 2020 at 10:44:43 AM

Keep the Man In Black, then. Clearly this was all a result of bad communication.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#228132: Sep 9th 2020 at 10:44:50 AM

Guma I think that can be inferred...

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#228133: Sep 9th 2020 at 10:46:51 AM

[up][up] On what grounds?

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#228134: Sep 9th 2020 at 10:47:32 AM

Yeah there's no leg to stand on keeping him, we've moved on from that.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#228135: Sep 9th 2020 at 10:47:59 AM

Why are we keeping him?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#228136: Sep 9th 2020 at 10:49:57 AM

I will regrettably admit: I have no idea what’s going on and never should have come into this conversation.

Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Sep 9th 2020 at 1:50:04 PM

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#228137: Sep 9th 2020 at 10:50:17 AM

[up][up] We’re not.

Edited by MasterN on Sep 9th 2020 at 10:50:26 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#228138: Sep 9th 2020 at 10:55:00 AM

Cut the MIB, N, please be open and honest in the future. It's much more upsetting when you deliberately leave out important info instead of just missing it with an honest mistake.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#228139: Sep 9th 2020 at 10:58:59 AM

I think we gotta cut an image:

Good image, but that's from New 52 Vandal, who hasn't been approved (yet).

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#228140: Sep 9th 2020 at 10:59:06 AM

[up][up] I concur.

[up] Cut.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Sep 9th 2020 at 2:04:54 PM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#228141: Sep 9th 2020 at 11:01:10 AM

We do now have something of a pattern of you not wanting for certain outcomes N and as a result doing things like leaving out pertinent info, arguing to cut the likes of Ellen only to flip and start making erroneous points to keep her which impeded upon my attempts to re-evaluate the character, cite Monaca Towa's Hate Sink entry for far more weight than it's worth and other such instances which have slowed down the process of having an accurate list of candidates. I know you mean well but this has gone on for a long time and covers a variety of technical issues. Please see to it you're open and honest with us or this will impact trust in your effort posts.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#228142: Sep 9th 2020 at 11:02:16 AM

And cut. I've created the Sandbox and also added Ayria.

There's also the quote Sandbox.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#228143: Sep 9th 2020 at 11:11:21 AM

Well now I’m confused. Abstain.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#228144: Sep 9th 2020 at 11:13:33 AM

I understand, 43.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#228145: Sep 9th 2020 at 11:14:01 AM

What are you confused on to abstain? He’s objectively a cut and I suggest those uncertain reread the whole discussion following Crow’s initial post on the matter (good job buddy).

KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#228147: Sep 9th 2020 at 11:20:05 AM

Yeah, I mean...when I found out about Ivan and Fantomas (rrrrrr) I brought them here ASAP

PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#228148: Sep 9th 2020 at 11:26:44 AM

Cut him, cut him. Once again, I blame myself.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#228149: Sep 9th 2020 at 11:28:33 AM

I should also note we could probably do without the intense overly emotional responses about slip ups.

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#228150: Sep 9th 2020 at 11:37:00 AM

[up] Out of curiosity, would my apologies for my mistakes be considered too emotional? I have a habit of apologizing a lot and I'm unsure if it can be considered too sentimental. If it's considered a problem, I'll cease that behavior.


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