During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Back on Hades from Uprising. Most lines and background in the game indicate the Underworld is naturally evil in that universe even though souls go there. Basically its more like Hell.
Reapers, who are said to be the natural soul gathers for the underworld in Uprising, also like to Eat Souls, so Hades isn't alone on that.
The only henchman of his, shown to have a problem with him is Medusa, who again is probably annoyed about being demoted to Disc-One Final Boss more then anything.
I'm also questioning Ivan Ooze on the Power Rangers sandbox, which I'll get into later. But basically, he's a Laughably Evil Villain, whose villainy is mostly offstage.
edited 11th Mar '14 8:19:45 PM by Monsund
Aren't all the Power Rangers villains Laughably Evil though, since the shows are often so bad they're good? Besides, most Laughably Evil villains count as CMs. Just ask The Joker.
edited 11th Mar '14 8:31:56 PM by AustinDR
Yeah, practically everyone Power Ranger villain is Laughably Evil, and Ivan ooze is no exception. From what I remember(I'm not a huge Power Ranger Buff, though saw the movie as a kid), Ivan Ooze in his introduction, laments various evil things he missed including the Brady Bunch Reunion.
Supposedly, according to the Genesis game, in the past Ooze rid planets of their adult population, while making the kids follow him. However this is just quickly mentioned rather then shown.
edited 11th Mar '14 8:33:54 PM by Monsund
I believe Ooze does that, but he isn't successful and he is the villain.
Looking it up the on the wiki, right now, Ooze gets upset when one of his giant monsters.
That Other Wiki says of him
"Though Ivan is depicted as pure evil, he has a comical and charming side to him shown throughout the movie, typical of other villains in the series"
Psych doesn't seem like a show where there would be many villains who pass the heinousness standard. From what I read in post 22763, we can cut Rollins for not committing enough crimes on screen. Also, terminate the entry for Yang with extreme prejudice (Freudian Excuse + failing heinousness standard when compared to Yin).
edited 11th Mar '14 9:46:49 PM by sanfranman91
Though I'd like to know what his Freudian Excuse is before we decide what to do with Ms. Yang.
edited 11th Mar '14 10:13:41 PM by AustinDR
I nominate Skull Face from Metal Gear Solid Ground Zeroes. His entire character seems to be heavily inspired in The Dark Knight's Joker. He is not above savagely torturing and crippling children, and even commits Rape by Proxy on Chico and Paz, and his main motivation seems only to get revenge against The Patriots, which includes members that no longer belong to the organization, like Big Boss.
edited 11th Mar '14 10:02:22 PM by LSSJ2Gohan
A trve man never dies, even when he's killed!Okay, I just looked at the wiki
, and we gotta cut Yang (who's a woman, by the way) right now.
Here's a description of an episode:
"Yang's story is concluded in "Yang 3 in 2D". It is revealed that Yin is her father, and while she often aided him, she never killed any of the victims herself. She never wanted to be a serial killer, and wanted a life of family and friendship much like Shawn's. In the end, her father becomes her first true victim. Yang tells Shawn she will remain in prison on account for all of the Yin/Yang murders, not knowing any other existence."
On top of that, she actually DIES SAVING SHAWN'S LIFE in her last appearance and has a serious Alas, Poor Villain death scene.
As for Rollins, he and his partner don't even have an entry.
edited 11th Mar '14 10:12:45 PM by Camberf
Ground Zeroes isn't even out yet, so I'm fucking pissed that people are spoilering it now when it's not even legally purchasable for another week.
So that is a fuck no on Skull Face; the game isn't out yet, and technically Ground Zeroes is just the prologue of V so discussing him violates the "no current story arc" rule.
edited 11th Mar '14 11:11:08 PM by Shaoken
In response to the question of Black Doom and love: nothing is shown either way. Due to Lack of Empathy, at most its a tiny bit.
What makes him worthy of the nomination is a case similar to Teppei Houjou. Its not what he does so much as how he does it. To demonstrate, I'll compare him to the Tyranids. Both want to strip planets of all life. Tyranids go about it by overrunning a planet and preying on defenders quickly and messily (think ravenous predators). Due to lack of malice, Tyranids are considered a "destructive locusts" brand of True Neutral.
Doom's approach basically involves tortuing all life to death in a pretty gruesome agonizing death.
Yeah, I played that game once years ago, and I remember a part where in one level, there are "healing units" Shadow can use to heal dying soldiers, and Doom says that it's annoying for pitiful humans to try to prolong their meaningless existance.
On Ooze, I know he has no redeeming qualities or any excuse for his actons and he's played seriously enough, but my question is if he meets the heonouss standard. Aside from being a bad boss (making the parents try to commit suicide, killing his minions for failure, threatning to kill Goldar if he touches him again), he's pretty much a standard "attack the city" villain. He's a little worse than the average kids villain, but not much.
jjjAfter reading that detail about about Ms. Yang, I'm really hoping that the entry listing her was written before those reveals. Otherwise, there's no excuse for listing as a Complete Monster a character that so obviously does not qualify.
RE Hades, there's a lot of conflicting information being listed about him, but it sounds like the game treats him as comical/non-heinous in a way a work wouldn't treat a Complete Monster.
Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki

This is on the Live-Action TV page, and it might need some work. First of all, it says that Mr. Yang has "a pretty good Freudian Excuse", but doesn't say what it is. Also, I'm not sure that Rollins and his partner qualify. I mean, they try to kill the hero. Is that really it? Finally, Yin might raise the bar enough that Yang wouldn't qualify anyway. Yang threatens to kill Shawn's mom, but the way it's written, it sounds like that was to get him to talk to her. Yin, on the other hand, was planning to kill one of Shawn's loved ones no matter what, then later does kill an acquaintance of his, then tries to kill both him and his best friend.
If Rollins, the partner, and Yang do other stuff, and Yang's Freudian Excuse doesn't hold water, then that's one thing, but their entries should at least be written to reflect that.
edited 11th Mar '14 7:43:19 PM by Camberf