TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#22751: Mar 11th 2014 at 7:41:36 PM

  • Psych: While a comedy/drama, it has a few notable monsters:
    • Mr. Yang - taunted Shawn over the course of a day in his first introduction, culminating in the kidnapping of his mother and strapping her to a bomb while threatening to blow her up if Shawn didn't have a heart to heart chat with the psycho. Yang does have a pretty good Freudian excuse, though, thanks to Yin.
    • Yin - created elaborate games, again for the purpose of taunting/tormenting Shawn to the extent of kidnapping Shawn's then girlfriend Abigail as well as Shawn's ongoing love interest, Juliet, and forcing him to choose which would survive. He also murdered a recurring character and acquaintance of Shawn's while Shawn and Gus watched helplessly. He later kidnapped both Shawn and Gus and prepared to murder Gus with a poison injection while explaining to Shawn that he had something special planned for "him".
    • Rollins - along with his partner Garth Longmore, aka Mc Quarry, shot and kidnapped Shawn, locked him in a car trunk, threatened him repeatedly with death through the night, and took him away in a truck with intents of disposing him.

This is on the Live-Action TV page, and it might need some work. First of all, it says that Mr. Yang has "a pretty good Freudian Excuse", but doesn't say what it is. Also, I'm not sure that Rollins and his partner qualify. I mean, they try to kill the hero. Is that really it? Finally, Yin might raise the bar enough that Yang wouldn't qualify anyway. Yang threatens to kill Shawn's mom, but the way it's written, it sounds like that was to get him to talk to her. Yin, on the other hand, was planning to kill one of Shawn's loved ones no matter what, then later does kill an acquaintance of his, then tries to kill both him and his best friend.

If Rollins, the partner, and Yang do other stuff, and Yang's Freudian Excuse doesn't hold water, then that's one thing, but their entries should at least be written to reflect that.

edited 11th Mar '14 7:43:19 PM by Camberf

Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#22752: Mar 11th 2014 at 8:19:24 PM

Back on Hades from Uprising. Most lines and background in the game indicate the Underworld is naturally evil in that universe even though souls go there. Basically its more like Hell.

Reapers, who are said to be the natural soul gathers for the underworld in Uprising, also like to Eat Souls, so Hades isn't alone on that.

The only henchman of his, shown to have a problem with him is Medusa, who again is probably annoyed about being demoted to Disc-One Final Boss more then anything.

I'm also questioning Ivan Ooze on the Power Rangers sandbox, which I'll get into later. But basically, he's a Laughably Evil Villain, whose villainy is mostly offstage.

edited 11th Mar '14 8:19:45 PM by Monsund

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#22753: Mar 11th 2014 at 8:25:05 PM

hmm, what should we do with the Psych ones? Cut out of caution? PM?

Ivan Ooze I have no feelings about, but I think he was kept for the whole "send the parents to die" thing

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#22754: Mar 11th 2014 at 8:25:52 PM

[up] Aren't all the Power Rangers villains Laughably Evil though, since the shows are often so bad they're good? Besides, most Laughably Evil villains count as CMs. Just ask The Joker.

edited 11th Mar '14 8:31:56 PM by AustinDR

Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#22755: Mar 11th 2014 at 8:31:40 PM

Yeah, practically everyone Power Ranger villain is Laughably Evil, and Ivan ooze is no exception. From what I remember(I'm not a huge Power Ranger Buff, though saw the movie as a kid), Ivan Ooze in his introduction, laments various evil things he missed including the Brady Bunch Reunion.

Supposedly, according to the Genesis game, in the past Ooze rid planets of their adult population, while making the kids follow him. However this is just quickly mentioned rather then shown.

edited 11th Mar '14 8:33:54 PM by Monsund

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#22756: Mar 11th 2014 at 8:34:24 PM

Can you take the game as canonical? Mostly the rule here is that we don't count the games if they come after a film or anything else.

Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#22757: Mar 11th 2014 at 8:37:34 PM

[up]

Might've been in the movie, but I'm not sure.

Either way, I'm fairly sure Ivan Ooze doesn't do anything particularly heinous onscreen, except for wounding Zordon(though he recovers).

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#22758: Mar 11th 2014 at 8:39:10 PM

why he was kept, doing a search: apparently in the film, he brainwashes every parent in the city and when he's tired of them, he orders them to "leap to their doom"

Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#22759: Mar 11th 2014 at 8:43:04 PM

I believe Ooze does that, but he isn't successful and he is the villain.

Looking it up the on the wiki, right now, Ooze gets upset when one of his giant monsters.

That Other Wiki says of him

"Though Ivan is depicted as pure evil, he has a comical and charming side to him shown throughout the movie, typical of other villains in the series"

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#22760: Mar 11th 2014 at 8:44:04 PM

That sort of thing was argued to be more heinous than the typical villain. Also, being successful isn't something we take into account. villains are often thwarted. A genuine attempt is enough.

Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#22761: Mar 11th 2014 at 8:45:07 PM

Well I haven't watched the movie in a really long time, so possibly?

sanfranman91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#22762: Mar 11th 2014 at 9:46:42 PM

Psych doesn't seem like a show where there would be many villains who pass the heinousness standard. From what I read in post 22763, we can cut Rollins for not committing enough crimes on screen. Also, terminate the entry for Yang with extreme prejudice (Freudian Excuse + failing heinousness standard when compared to Yin).

edited 11th Mar '14 9:46:49 PM by sanfranman91

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#22763: Mar 11th 2014 at 9:48:47 PM

Though I'd like to know what his Freudian Excuse is before we decide what to do with Ms. Yang.

edited 11th Mar '14 10:13:41 PM by AustinDR

LSSJ2Gohan from Lima, Peru Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#22764: Mar 11th 2014 at 10:02:10 PM

I nominate Skull Face from Metal Gear Solid Ground Zeroes. His entire character seems to be heavily inspired in The Dark Knight's Joker. He is not above savagely torturing and crippling children, and even commits Rape by Proxy on Chico and Paz, and his main motivation seems only to get revenge against The Patriots, which includes members that no longer belong to the organization, like Big Boss.

edited 11th Mar '14 10:02:22 PM by LSSJ2Gohan

A trve man never dies, even when he's killed!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#22765: Mar 11th 2014 at 10:02:43 PM

How's he compare to the guys we have as complete monsters in the Metal Gear series like Sundowner and Volgin?

Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#22766: Mar 11th 2014 at 10:11:08 PM

Okay, I just looked at the wiki, and we gotta cut Yang (who's a woman, by the way) right now.

Here's a description of an episode:

"Yang's story is concluded in "Yang 3 in 2D". It is revealed that Yin is her father, and while she often aided him, she never killed any of the victims herself. She never wanted to be a serial killer, and wanted a life of family and friendship much like Shawn's. In the end, her father becomes her first true victim. Yang tells Shawn she will remain in prison on account for all of the Yin/Yang murders, not knowing any other existence."

On top of that, she actually DIES SAVING SHAWN'S LIFE in her last appearance and has a serious Alas, Poor Villain death scene.

As for Rollins, he and his partner don't even have an entry.

edited 11th Mar '14 10:12:45 PM by Camberf

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#22767: Mar 11th 2014 at 10:13:20 PM

Maybe make them one.

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#22768: Mar 11th 2014 at 11:09:44 PM

Ground Zeroes isn't even out yet, so I'm fucking pissed that people are spoilering it now when it's not even legally purchasable for another week.

So that is a fuck no on Skull Face; the game isn't out yet, and technically Ground Zeroes is just the prologue of V so discussing him violates the "no current story arc" rule.

edited 11th Mar '14 11:11:08 PM by Shaoken

magnum12 Since: Aug, 2009
#22769: Mar 11th 2014 at 11:23:39 PM

In response to the question of Black Doom and love: nothing is shown either way. Due to Lack of Empathy, at most its a tiny bit.

What makes him worthy of the nomination is a case similar to Teppei Houjou. Its not what he does so much as how he does it. To demonstrate, I'll compare him to the Tyranids. Both want to strip planets of all life. Tyranids go about it by overrunning a planet and preying on defenders quickly and messily (think ravenous predators). Due to lack of malice, Tyranids are considered a "destructive locusts" brand of True Neutral.

Doom's approach basically involves tortuing all life to death in a pretty gruesome agonizing death.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#22770: Mar 12th 2014 at 4:32:18 AM

[up] Yeah, I played that game once years ago, and I remember a part where in one level, there are "healing units" Shadow can use to heal dying soldiers, and Doom says that it's annoying for pitiful humans to try to prolong their meaningless existance.

On Ooze, I know he has no redeeming qualities or any excuse for his actons and he's played seriously enough, but my question is if he meets the heonouss standard. Aside from being a bad boss (making the parents try to commit suicide, killing his minions for failure, threatning to kill Goldar if he touches him again), he's pretty much a standard "attack the city" villain. He's a little worse than the average kids villain, but not much.

jjj
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#22771: Mar 12th 2014 at 6:24:22 AM

Okay. Then a [tup] for Black Doom. Also, one of the main things about Ooze is how he wanted all the children's parents to kill themselves, and apparently no other Power Rangers villains tried to stoop that low. So, maybe he's a possible keep as well.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#22772: Mar 12th 2014 at 6:25:21 AM

Yeah, give Skull Face some time.

We'll see how he plays out but I wouldn't be surprised if he qualifies by the end.

Oh really when?
Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#22773: Mar 12th 2014 at 6:31:19 AM

After reading that detail about about Ms. Yang, I'm really hoping that the entry listing her was written before those reveals. Otherwise, there's no excuse for listing as a Complete Monster a character that so obviously does not qualify.

RE Hades, there's a lot of conflicting information being listed about him, but it sounds like the game treats him as comical/non-heinous in a way a work wouldn't treat a Complete Monster.

Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
thenothing Since: Oct, 2011
#22774: Mar 12th 2014 at 6:38:08 AM

I'd like to nominate (being spoiler sensitive, just in case) "The Creature in the Tall Grass" from True Detective. After the finale, I think he qualifies quite easily.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009

Total posts: 326,048
Top