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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#227502: Sep 4th 2020 at 1:47:50 PM

Yeah, I think The Monolith Deathcult's probably gonna need its own page. Would it need a music page for that to happen? I know it can't hurt to set one up even if that's not the case, I just want to make sure I know what our practice is going forward.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#227504: Sep 4th 2020 at 1:51:26 PM

Oh, I almost forgot. [tup] to Chip.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#227505: Sep 4th 2020 at 2:00:02 PM

Since she was approved, here is the writeup:

Golden Super Adventure Princess of Power series: Catra is the She-Ra's nemesis, who does everything she can to make life miserable for the heroes. At one point kidnapping Glimmer to force her mother, Queen Angella, to surrender the kingdom of Bright Moon to her, Catra later on tricked Glimmer into wearing The Crooked Crown, leading her to nearly drowning a group of sailors and then almost flooding the entire village and all people in it, while Glimmer herself felt the unbearable pain from the effects of the crown. After being defeated, Catra decided to ruin the weeding between Ellanella and Daniel by having Ellanella turned into a dear and then sended her black panther to turn her and Daniel into a stone and petrify them.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#227506: Sep 4th 2020 at 2:04:37 PM

[up][up][up][up] Don't know it it's NEEDED, but probably not a bad idea.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#227507: Sep 4th 2020 at 2:08:10 PM

Let's just wait till the eps are up.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DoodSlayer136 It's Him from SAGE (Snick Amateur Game Expo) (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
It's Him
#227509: Sep 4th 2020 at 3:32:14 PM

Say, was it ever said that Aku HAD to be evil because of the whole Made of Evil thing? He does seem like the kinda guy to still love doing evil with or without that trait.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#227510: Sep 4th 2020 at 3:36:33 PM

He's literally an extension of an evil Eldritch entity that broke off an gained life of its own. He is evil because it is his literal nature to be so.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#227512: Sep 4th 2020 at 3:40:23 PM

Well yeah. Aku isnt one though.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DelphineTheDelphox I thought sharks were my friends. from The Alola Region Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I thought sharks were my friends.
#227513: Sep 4th 2020 at 3:58:10 PM

Regardless, Aku's substance, his literal genetic makeup, is Evil, with a capital E. The only reason Ashi is able to be good is because she's only half Made of Evil, while her other half is human.

RIP KissAnime.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#227514: Sep 4th 2020 at 4:01:37 PM

Which his funny, because her mother's a grade-A bitch.

Edited by ACW on Sep 4th 2020 at 7:35:08 AM

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#227515: Sep 4th 2020 at 4:44:03 PM

So I found this on 24 earlier this morning and deleted it.

Dmitri Gredenko is an ex soviet general and the one who provided the weapons to Fayed. His objective is to detonate the nukes across the US, to not only damaged the country, but to produce a war between them and the muslims that would kill millions, to allow Russia to become the main super power once again. Aside the Nukes, he provides Fayed with targets and the means to deliver the nukes to them. When things go south, he tries to get new targets from a mentally challenged man, and tries to have him killed after. When captured, he betrays both Fayed and CTU and tries to escape.

Um...so, like, this isn't entirely an exaggeration. Gredenko did do all of these things in Season 6. He basically planned on betraying Fayed and letting the Middle East and America go to war with each other...and he more or less supplied Fayed with the nukes so. Um. Hmm.

...

...

Damn, I may end up rewatching Season 6 again and doing another EP. Or PMing the troper who listed this entry to begin with. Seems like he/she also is a fan of the show.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#227516: Sep 4th 2020 at 4:47:37 PM

Woah so he shares responsibly for Fayed's worst act which netted him a cm position.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#227517: Sep 4th 2020 at 4:56:53 PM

[up] More or less. Fayed launched a series of terrorist attacks and then tried to set off five nuclear bombs in LA. Phillip Bauer was behind everything in Season 5, tried to cover up everything that occurred in Season 6, murdered his own son, and later tried to start a war between Russia and America so China would profit from it. Gredenko basically helped Fayed by supplying him with the bombs solely so they could take credit for it and the Middle East and America would go to war. Then Russia would sweep in and become a superpower once all the dust settled.

...Okay yeah, I'm rewatching Season 6. Should have an EP in a few days unless the other troper wants to do it.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#227518: Sep 4th 2020 at 5:01:09 PM

[up] I think we will leave Dimitri in your hands Tyk and good luck rewatching 24!

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#227519: Sep 4th 2020 at 5:29:58 PM

Is Moro's arc over yet? I am not fully up to date on his arc but I actually think he has a descent chance of counting.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#227520: Sep 4th 2020 at 5:30:28 PM

Not yet, should be a few chapters more

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#227521: Sep 4th 2020 at 6:35:47 PM

[tup] Catra and Drygion

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#227522: Sep 4th 2020 at 6:39:57 PM

Alright, first of my EPs for The Monolith Deathcult:

What's the work?

The Apotheosis is the first album of Dutch Death Metal band The Monolith Deathcult. We'll be looking at three interconnected songs on this album: "Forest of Flesh", "Cathedral of Corpses (Slayer of Jihad Part I)", and "The Desecration of the Black Stone (Slayer of Jihad Part II)". All three center around a specific individual:

Who is he? What has he done?

Vlad the Impaler is a ruler in the Balkans known for two things: his bloodthirsty sadism and his hatred of Islam and Muslims, which he takes to genocidal extremes. During a war against the Ottoman Empire, he subjects his own territory to a brutal scorched-earth campaign to deny the Turks supplies, paying no regard to the suffering it causes among his people. Then he impales thousands of Turkish prisoners on stakes, creating a forest of death that horrifies the Sultan into retreating.

The man's evil continues even after his death, as he not only fondly reminisces about the horrible things he did while alive, but continues to commit atrocities.

Yeah, they went the route of having Vlad the Impaler become Dracula after his death. While I have mentioned before that Stoker didn't actually intend for Dracula to be a vampiric Vlad (at most, he took some inspiration from Mr. Tepes), it's such a ubiquitous thing that I can't really blame them.

Anyway, as a vampire, Dracula leads an undead horde and spends a lot of his time preying on humans, and often makes sure they don't just die, but suffer too. Not only that, but he continues to hold on to his hatred of Islam and its practitioners.

This culminates in a plan to completely destroy the religion.

You thought I was exaggerating when I said he took his hatred to genocidal extremes? No, he starts implementing a plan to scour large parts of the Middle East with fire in an effort to utterly eradicate Islam by desecrating its most important holy sites, wiping out huge numbers of Muslims in the process.

Here are the lyrics, to each song, by the way:

    open/close all folders 

    Forest of Flesh 
"We are born in the moonlight and killed by the sun
We are the bloodsucking creatures of the night
We do not know love and we desire for lust in this night of endless pain"
Standing proud in endless rows the defeated dead hang stiff and still
Perverse thoughts ordered upon battalions, hungering to maim and kill
"Our hearts are death and our souls are raped as we hail for the final command"
Charging through, pile the dead upon the dead
Endless straights of anonymous corpses
Sliding the skins off the unfortunate soldiers
Leaving them to rot in the impure winds of war
Stench from the purulent clays beneath
Soil and flesh trampled to bloody snot
Trenches flooding with blood and gore
Here is no peace, here is no beauty
"We are with one as we are with many"
Thousands of throats cry for violence and death
Torched villages mark the theatre of the macabre
Black blood, Frozen eyes feasting with the undead
Bow for me, pathetic mortals, your God is dead for ages
Impaled like thousands of your despised people
Eyes gazing glassy and vacant at the bloodred sky
Violently condemned to see your dying God above
"We are born in the moonlight and killed by the sun
We are the bloodsucking creatures of the night"
My knights of hell slaughter the legions of Mohammed
The tortured Mudjahedeen scream their agony upon the stake

    Cathedral of Corpses (Slayer of Jihad Part I) 
Beneath the shadow of thy throne still may we dwell secure
Suffering is thine arm alone and our defense is sure
A thousand ages in my sight are like an evening gone
I am the one who ends your life before the rising sun
My word commands your flesh to dust:"Return, ye sons of men!"
Immortals rose from earth at first and my blood will live again
Beneath the shadow of my throne still may we dwell secure
Suffering is thine arm alone and our defense is sure.
A thousand ages in my sight are like an evening gone
Behold my cathedral of death, see my forest of flesh
Taste the blood of the enemies, the enemies of Vlad
I eat their broken eyes, I curse their gasped pray
Allah's war is lost today
Dark Seraphim, Slayer of Jihad
Death in Carpathia, the massacre is done
Face the flesh horizon, destructor, misantrophe
The corpses of the impaled Turks penetrate your hopes
No Sultan no, don't go away
No Sultan no, your judge is just on its way
You shall die before the rising sun
My word commands your flesh to dust:"Return, ye sons of men!"
Immortals rose from earth at first and my blood will live again
A thousand ages in my sight are like an evening gone
I am the one who ends your life before the wanking nuns

    The Desecration of the Black Stone (Slayer of Jihad Part II) 
They conspire in their caves in their envious world of emptiness
Preparing for Jihad to obey their desert god
They murder for belief to deflower 70 virgins
These "brave" Mudjahedeen brought Gaza in darknesss
Their God is a worm baptised in the blood of the prophet
On the hills of mount Sinai we meet in Armageddon
The laws of the Sharia will not impress upon us
Your holy army, blotted out, pounded into sand
In the napalm sea, the suns of Ismael bathe in flames
Is this the prophet's breed? Headless corpses return to dust
They have defiled our graves, their punishment will be endless
Our blistering napalm rain wipes them from the face of the earth
We desecrate the black stone
Slayer of Jihad
We do not obey their wretched desert God
We are impure
We are unrepentant, your final blasphemers
We distort your image of God
The walls of Jericho will fall again
We root out the seeds of the Mudjahedeen
The golden dome shall return to sand
"The blood of your forefathers shall be shed on mount Arafat
The bastard sons of Abraham shall never rise up again"
The laws of the Sharia will not impress upon us
Your holy army, blotted out pounded into sand
The pest of Arabia shall not overwhelm us
Their lustful prophet desecrates the innocent virginal skin
In my dreams I go back to the forest of flesh
Where the Ottomans lay slain before the cathedral of death
The sacred black stone, the black seeds of Jihad
We blaspheme in the presence of their backward desert God
Impalement is delightful, let us urinate on foes
We hammer the stake through the back of their throats
Face the flesh horizon, destructor, misantrophe
The corpses of the impaled Turks penetrate your hopes
They have defiled our graves, their punishment will be endless
Our blistering napalm rain wipes them from the face of the earth
We desecrate the black stone
Slayer of Jihad

Heinousness?

There are references to the Ottoman troops and the mudjahedeen Vlad/Dracula rails against having done some ignoble things, but keep in mind: this is from his perspective. Even if we take them at face value, Vladcula's sadistic bloodlust and attempt at outright genocide blows them right out of the water. No, there aren't any real issues with the heinous standard here.

Freudian Excuse? Other mitigating factors?

None. He's just a bigoted, bloodthirsty barbarian.

Verdict?

[tup] to yet another Vlad/Dracula amalgamation.

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Sep 4th 2020 at 6:41:06 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#227523: Sep 4th 2020 at 6:41:48 PM

[tup]Dracula

Tbf this has been a thing since 1929 at least. The Turkish translation all the way back in 1929 was the first to say dracula and Vlad were the same guy. Though Stoker was influenced by other sources like Bathory from what we know.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020

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