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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#226776: Aug 29th 2020 at 8:31:27 AM

Yeah, that works for the writeup, but we need an effortpost first.

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#226777: Aug 29th 2020 at 8:33:04 AM

[tup] to Wade Crewes and Zydereen.

Here's another candidate.

What's the Work?

HALLOWEEN is, well, a Halloween fanfic that takes place, presumably, years after the original timeline (before the time divergences), in which Michael Myers has been captured and locked away in a mental asylum. Unfortunately, he's escaped and is determined to wipe out his entire family lineage out of revenge for his past defeat by the hands of his sister, Laurie Strode. This time, he's targeting his cousin, Casey, and her friends. And the titular holiday of that year arrives...

Who is Michael Myers and What Has He Done?

Michael Myers is the same heartless, but silent serial killer he is from the film, in which his background was described above. After escaping the asylum, he begins his murdering spree by breaking into a nearby house and murders the couple living there, Dylan Edwards and Tina Blakely. To murder Casey, Michael heads to Haddonfield, where she resides, in which he encounters two teens, Jake and Krystal, snooping around his old house. Being the serial killer he is, he attacks them, killing them former and severely crippling the latter. On the floor, Krystal begs for her life and Michael seemingly obliges, but as soon as she moves, Michael kills her anyways.

His next victim is another teen named Brandi, who initially doesn't believe he's the real deal upon seeing him because her friend, Logan, has been pranking her in a costume of Michael. This bites her hard when Michael stabs her, lets her crawl in agony for a while, strangle her, and then smash her head in. He continues his murderous spress on Haddonfield from there, murdering Kat, Caleb, and Logan, all the while admiring his "work." Finally, he encounters Casey and her only other suriving friend, Breanna, walking to them with murderous intent. He first grabs Breanna and murders her in front of Casey before trying to murder the latter, but Casey manages to escape.

Unfortunately, Michael catches up to her and tries to kill her, forcing Casey to flee from him. In one house she traverses through, she finds that Michael has made "tropies" out of his previous victims, Jake and Krystal, by hanging their bodies. Eventually, Casey grabs a shotgun and seemingly shoots Michael and kills him. However, as per the norm for slasher movies, it's revealed that he's Not Quite Dead and he escapes. The police investigate into his killing spree and found that, on top of the already listed victims, he's murdered six other people he's encountered. Not to mention that he's still free to commit more murders, as he does so to a poor girl he encounters in the epilogue.

Does He Have Any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Absolutely none on either front. The closest thing to a mitigating factor is when he doesn't murder an elderly woman who thinks he's a trick-or-treater and insults his costume, but he only spares her because 1) he's too focused on stalking Casey instead and 2) there are other trick-or-treaters on the street, so it would be inconvenient to kill her. Plus, he stares at her in response, as if giving her a murderous glare that scares her off. Also, despite lacking dialogue, he does occasionally show human emotion to characterize him like giving a Hope Spot to Krystal and admiring the murders he commits.

Also, if this sounds like a fanfic that solely focuses on doing bad things, no need to worry as many of the other side characters gets characterized in this story like how Casey has a near deathly fear of Myers before even meeting him properly and Logan enjoys pulling pranks on his friends.

Does He Meet the Heinousness Standard?

His bodycount here is over a dozen (many of them not even out of high school) and that's discounting the number of people he's murdered in the past and the many more people he planned to kill after he was done with Casey. Plus, he's the only antagonist here, so he passes.

Final Verdict

What do you guys think?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#226778: Aug 29th 2020 at 8:35:05 AM

Sure to Myers. Yikes, this seems worse than the original Myers keeper (though not as bad as the remake one, while Rob Zombie's didn't count).

PsychoticRanger4567 Since: Mar, 2019
#226779: Aug 29th 2020 at 8:35:44 AM

How do I do the effort post? Better yet, what even is an effort post?

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#226780: Aug 29th 2020 at 8:36:05 AM

[up] A lay out of the format of an EP is right above.

Yes to Myers by the way.

Edited by Bullman on Aug 29th 2020 at 10:42:08 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
M1st3rSt3v3 Since: Jul, 2017 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
PsychoticRanger4567 Since: Mar, 2019
#226782: Aug 29th 2020 at 8:44:58 AM

So take a look and tell me the verdict? I'll try to write an effort post of my proposal in the meantime.

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#226783: Aug 29th 2020 at 8:47:15 AM

Doesn't look like it is completed, it is only one chapter out.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#226784: Aug 29th 2020 at 8:48:38 AM

[tup] to Michael Meyers

Not touching the su stuff

Edit: yeah, you can't propose until the character's arc is done

Edited by Libraryseraph on Aug 29th 2020 at 11:55:35 AM

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#226785: Aug 29th 2020 at 8:54:20 AM

Edit: Never mind. I just rewatched the episode again. I don't think it needs a rewrite anymore. Sorry for wasting everyone's time.

Edited by Bullman on Aug 29th 2020 at 11:35:43 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#226786: Aug 29th 2020 at 8:56:31 AM

Sure to Michael but I don't know what the hell is going on with the SU fic and I'm advocating we don't let it go up now since communication from the poster trying to get the character up is very unclear.

1. Is the fic complete, as you've been asked or is the character's arc done?

2. Is the tone conducive to this trope, is it just an edgy turn up where bad things happen?

3. We need a single post that encompasses the setting, the deeds of the character, their heinous stand out and mitigating factors before we're going to consider assessing a writeup for them.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#226787: Aug 29th 2020 at 8:56:47 AM

What's the difference. I like to know when something gets rewritten to see if it's necessary.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#226788: Aug 29th 2020 at 9:04:49 AM

Edit: Never mind. I just rewatched the episode again. It wasn't gas it was a garnade. I don't think it's worth mentioning in that case. Sorry for wasting everyone's time.

Edited by Bullman on Aug 29th 2020 at 11:20:53 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#226789: Aug 29th 2020 at 9:08:24 AM

[tup]Vostok, Wade, & Zydereen

@Psychotic Ranger just wait until he webcomic is completed

PsychoticRanger4567 Since: Mar, 2019
#226790: Aug 29th 2020 at 9:20:47 AM

What's the Work?

Steven Universe: Gone Wrong has the honor of being the darkest of all Steven Universe media, for now. Here, it answers an important question: What happens if Steven actually died when Spinel slashed him with the Rejuvenator?

Who is Spinel and What Has She Done?

Those of you who watched the movie and knew Spinel to be a Tragic Villain will be bitten hard when you find hat she is depicted as much more psychotic and sadistic than she already was before. Here, she planned to poison the entire Earth just like she did originally, and she probably still had her tragic past, but took great pleasure in tormenting Steven and also she wanted to hurt him and his friends just for sadistic sakes. Even better, she even murdered Steven by slashing him in half with the Rejuvenator, but his gem half survived the hit, but became much more violent as a result. She even took joy in hurting his friends, and was responsible for reverting them to their original selves.

Does She Have Any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Neither. She did however, see, to feel guilty, and tried to apologize for killing Steven, but was rendered weak when Pink Steven viciously attacked her and tried to kill her. Her apology rejected, she immediately and remorselessly tried to kill Pink Steven with the Rejuvenator. The worst part, this was after Steven's human corpse failed to revive, and the other Gems, especially Greg were upset over his death.

Does She Meet the Heinousness Standard?

The story focuses on Steven's friends and family grieving after Spinel killed him. Even after she was poofed, Greg, in a fit of rage, tried to shatter her for killing his son, definitely an out of character moment. Spinel ruined many lives, created a monster out of sadism, tried to destroy the Earth, and caused many others to grieve over a hero's death. She may not necessarily be tyrannical like the Diamonds, and that's the thing, all the others were redeemed or not shown in the movie, but Spinel easily takes the cake as among the worst.

Final Verdict

What do you guys think? I hope that's a good example of an effort post.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#226791: Aug 29th 2020 at 9:22:07 AM

I'm not voting on Spinel until the arc or Comic is done.

Edited by Bullman on Aug 29th 2020 at 11:24:40 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#226792: Aug 29th 2020 at 9:22:39 AM

We cannot do this until the comic is done. "The villain's arc has to be complete" is one of the rules here, and qe only make exceptions under exceptional circumstances

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
PsychoticRanger4567 Since: Mar, 2019
#226793: Aug 29th 2020 at 9:26:09 AM

Then it is decided. we put Spinel on hold until the author is officially done with this fanfic.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#226794: Aug 29th 2020 at 9:30:31 AM

[up] I'm not trying to be rude here or anything. But that really should have been a given and shouldn't need to have been decided in. Since it's a big rule here to wait until the character's arc is done.

Edited by Bullman on Aug 29th 2020 at 11:37:21 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Sawkman Since: Apr, 2018
#226795: Aug 29th 2020 at 9:45:57 AM

What is the Work?

Gargoyles is a surprisingly dark Disney animated series created by Greg Weisman that aired from October 24, 1994, to February 15, 1997. The series follows a group of gargoyles who, after the massacre of most of their people, were cursed to spend eternity in stone until the castle they resided were to "rise above the clouds". One thousand years later, billionaire David Xanatos buys the castle and has it rebuilt onto a skyscraper, undoing the curse and bringing the gargoyles into a strange new world. After realizing Xanatos' less than benevolent intentions, the gargoyles, lead by Goliath, vow to protect their new home of New York City from him and various other supernatural and technological threats.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

Hakon, the leader of a violent viking clan, is the show's Starter Villain and Token Motivational Nemesis. Debuting in "Awakening Part 1", he leads an attack on Castle Wyvern, with it ending in complete failure as the gargoyles successfully ward off him and his men. Not too long after, he accepts aid from the Captain of the Guard in driving out the castle's residents and looting it. However, not content with merely looting the castle, Hakon takes it upon himself to the Wyvern clan while in their petrified state. When the Captain of the Guard urges him not to, pointing out that it's unnecessary since he has enough time to loot the castle and escape before the gargoyles could awaken, Hakon instead threatens to kill him (completely forgetting that he's the reason his clan succeeded in the siege of the cast to begin with) and gleefully slaughters Goliath's clan.

When confronted by Goliath, he gutlessly tries to blame the Captain of the Guard for the massacre, before the Captain attacks him in a rage and hurling them both off a cliff.

In "Shadows of the Past", he returns as a ghost alongside the Captain of the Guard, having persisted through The Power of Hate and forced to haunt the site of Castle Wyvern. Once Goliath and co. end up at the site, they spend the episode tormenting Goliath by conjuring nightmarish illusions of his deceased clan and flashbacks of the day they were slaughtered that drive him to the brink of madness; with Hakon getting far more enjoyment out of his suffering. All of this is done out of revenge for their deaths (even though Goliath wasn't responsible for their demise).

Towards the end, they reveal their intent to lure Goliath so they may complete a ritual that would bring them back to life and leave Goliath trapped for all eternity. While the Captain of the Guard has a Heel Realization and realizes how utterly pointless his hatred of Goliath is, Hakon is utterly remorseless, refusing to accept blame for his own demise and gloats about how Goliath will suffer for all eternity. The Captain, however, interrupts the ritual and puts a stop to his plan. Tellingly, the Captain is able to let go of his hate and Ascend to a Higher Plane of Existence, while Hakon refuses to repent and continues to senseless hatred of Goliath.

This continues into "Vendettas", having had his soul bound to an ax, he teams-up with Wolf to kill Goliath and Hudson once and for all, having learned nothing from his previous encounter with Goliath and desiring petty vengeance until his dying breath.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

He displays zero redeeming qualities and completely lacks a Freudian Excuse; showing nothing but contempt for all who oppose his and is solely motivated by petty vengeance and hatred.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

He committed mass murder, having needlessly slaughtered Goliath's clan while they were helpless and tormented him as a ghost with haunting visions of his dead comrades; with the intent of having him trapped for all eternity. All of this is done out of a petty need for revenge after the gargoyles stopped him from attacking their home; which he did purely out of greed.

While Demora committed similar actions in "City of Stone", Hakon lacks her Freudian Excuse. Demona's hatred of humans stems from suffering mistreatment at their hands for much of her life, as well as her being unable to accept that she's partially to blame for her clan's demise. Hakon's hatred of the gargoyles, on the other hand, stems from pettiness at best, with them only wronging him by defending their home from being ransacked; leaving him and most of his men alive.

And while the Captain of the Guard also joins in tormenting Goliath in ""Shadows of the Past", he admits that deep down he knew Goliath wasn't at fault for his death and that his hatred truly stems from remorse in his role in the Wyvern clan massacre, he was simply unable to admit it and manages to atone. Hakon, on the other hand, truly despises Goliath, refusing to acknowledge his wrongdoing, nor how his death was his own fault.

While not as depraved and cruel as Jackal, Hakon is an utterly irredeemable mass murderer, purely motivated by misplaced vengeance.

Final Verdict?

I think he's a solid contender.

Edited by Sawkman on Aug 29th 2020 at 12:46:55 PM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#226796: Aug 29th 2020 at 9:48:39 AM

Writeup time.

  • Kya: Dark Lineage: Brazul, in actuality Kyra and Frank’s father, is a cruel alien conqueror who plans to destroy and take over multiple dimensions with the power of the medallion. Setting his sights on the peaceful Nativ village, Brazul has multiple Nativs kidnapped and transformed into Wolfens to add to his army, planning to do the same to Frank once he’s in his grasp. Making the Nativ Aton betray his people and give up Kyra in return for protection, Brazul instead finds the location of the village and has his men burn it all down, capturing the inhabitants to be transformed into Wolfen, while also planning to transform Kyra into a Wolfen to rule the world while he’ll be out destroying other dimensions.

It's Spooky Month!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#226797: Aug 29th 2020 at 9:54:35 AM

MMM, Hakon. I need to think this over. The Castle Wyvern Massacre is horrible...but Hakon I think might just fail in heinousness otherwise.

Let me say a yes to Wade, nicely done, Random! A yes to Zydereen, albeit goddammit, Scraggle, you broke the trend of only Mings. Yes to Michael, too...Spinel? Hold off on that one for a bit, I'd say.

NOW, this has been a while in the coming:

What's the work?

Stargirl is a 2020 series based on the comic Stars And Stripes. Courtney Whitmore was originally the Star-Spangled Kid who became the new Stargirl. an ordinary teenager, Courtney stumbles upon the Cosmic Staff, Starman's old weapon/tool. Not only that, her stepfather Pat turns out to have once been Starman's sidekick. In Blue Valley, Courtney decides to take up the legacy of Starman, believing he was her biological father, and inspire a new legacy o heroes....for the Justice Society fell before their enemies, the Injustice Society, the ISA who desire 'Project New America.'

Now...the ISA is led by the evil Jordan Mahkent, Icicle. He is NOT a keeper. Most of the ISA, for all their evil, are loving parents and truly believe they are making the world a better place. There is, however, one exception to the rule who gives lip service to it at best. I give you...Shiro Ito. The Dragon King.

Who is the Dragon King?

Dr. Shiro Ito was born in 1901. A brilliant scientist beyond compare, Ito joined the Japanese military in the 1930s who created a host of biological weapons, including a bacili bomb that spread plague throughout China. He was also known for human experimentation, which was nothing to be envied for its subjects. Ito was caught at the conclusion of the war and supposedly executed for his war crimes in 1947. He resurfaced in 1990 trying to wipe out New York, defeated by the Seven Soldiers o Victory, where he would form a deep hatred for one of its members, the Shining Knight, Sir Justin.

Justin was defeated by Ito, who captured him and subjected him to horrific tortures. Shattering his mind, Ito gained pleasure in forcing Justin to become a 'nobody,' a put-upon janitor at Blue Valley Highschool. Ito also married a woman and had a daughter named Cindy. Every bit the father you can expect, Ito molded Cindy into a weapon via a combination of abuse and experimentation, turning her into an unstable timebomb, who murdered her mother. Ito was just "meh" about this...Cindy is basically the top Mean Girl of the school, but is a broken wreck inside. Ito also has others he conditions and breaks to be lab assistants, viewing them as nothing more than tools. When Cindy kills one in a fit of pique, Ito coldly asks if she knows how long it takes him to condition them.

As far as Project New America Goes...it's based around a machine Ito makes to control the minds of about 100 million adults, the ISA planning for the sacrifice of one generation to safeguard the future of the next. Ito seemingly pays lip service to this...before asking Jordan Mahkent if he can have a deceased member's body, royally creeping him out When Cindy disobeys him, Ito locks her up in a cell, hearing her threaten him...which prompts him to shut the small windows and orders his assistants to knock her out with gas, noting it always worked when she was a baby. Stargirl and team do successfully raid his lair with Ito dueling Stargirl and revealing the secret for his longevity: turning himself into a man/lizard hybrid..

Ito is later able to activate his masterpiece with the villain Brainwave as the center...the kicker? It'll cause a massive number o casualties. 25 million adults will die in the process. The heroes are able to bust in to save the day, with Ito engaging his nemesis Shining Knight. When Ito gains the advantage, a freed Cindy ambushes her father and impales him through the back, remarking he shouldn't have left her locked up.

Heinousness?

It should be clear that Ito is a member of the ISA, all aboard with Plan New America, so he's complicit in trying to kill like 25 million people. the difference is Ito is far from a well-intentioned extremist, and I think this establishes enough of a pattern for his previous attempts to wipe out cities and other places in the name of cold scientific curiosity. He experiments on people in ghastly ways, including his daughter, all with the cold demeanor of dissecting a frog. I'd say Ito passes.

Mitigating Qualities?

Ito is driven entirely by scientific curiosity. His character page lists adaptational heroism (I'm going to discuss the comic Dragon King later, just FYI), but...it doesn't hold up. He does briefly praise Cindy in a letter to the others, but only in the context of what a good little experiment she is. He has zero feeling to her, controls her with threats and abuse, locks her in a small cell for a long time when she defies him and just gasses her to shut her up when she annoys him. Something it's implied he's done when she'd cry as a baby. He cares nothing for his wives, and he does briefly comment on 'the sacrifice of this generation securing the future of the next'...issue is, he's saying this to Jordan, parroting his beliefs. At no point does he ever demonstrate them himself, preferring to focus on his experiments, which is all that matters. Given he immediately asks for the corpse of a comrade to experiment on which even disturbs Jordan?

Beyond that, he's as cold as the blood in his veins.

Conclusion?

It's all but impossible to see his words for a better world as genuine, given context and later actions. The Dragon King is a sociopathic mad scientist dedicated to seeing his experiments come to pass no matter who he hurts, with no true care for any higher ideal.

Pass.

Edited by Lightysnake on Aug 29th 2020 at 9:55:35 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#226799: Aug 29th 2020 at 9:57:33 AM

[tup] to Shiro Ito (subtle)

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#226800: Aug 29th 2020 at 9:58:50 AM

[tup]Dragon king aka totally not shiro Ishii

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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