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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#226226: Aug 24th 2020 at 1:03:33 AM

Tentative [tup] to Anslow

Edited by G-Editor on Aug 23rd 2020 at 10:05:05 PM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#226227: Aug 24th 2020 at 3:29:30 AM

[tup] to Woodman, [tdown] to Smile. Weak [tup] to Anslow.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#226228: Aug 24th 2020 at 5:34:52 AM

[tdown]Anslow

Classic example of his dragon is worse so he's outheinoused in turn

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#226230: Aug 24th 2020 at 6:10:44 AM

[tup] Woodman.

[tdown] Anslow.

Abstain on Smile.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#226232: Aug 24th 2020 at 7:44:40 AM

Here's my last Quest one for now, from the films Golden Quest and Attack of the Cyber Insects: The movie Dr. Zin

Who is Zin?

Played by Jeffrey Tambor, Zin is a far cry from his suave series counterpart. Old, sick and dying, Zin is the same ruthless nemesis of Dr. Bentham Quest who is also responsible for the death of Bentham's wife and Jonny's mother Rachel Quest by using a clone to take her hostage so both die in an explosion. Zin survives and lures in the Quests, with his goal being to prolong hislife via spreading his mind o clones. Not wanting to remain old and sick through all his lives, Zin's plan is (I swear) to harvest the manliness of Race Bannon to empower himself. Murdering several more people along the way, Zin is finally trapped and killed, but his mind survives within one of his clones...

Enter Attack of the Cyber Insects. Zin is operating from a homemade space station and designing an insect race of his own to invade earth. He's also served by a group of henchmen: 425, 426, and 427. When the first plan fails, a still clandestine Zin blames 425, who is dragged off screaming by giant bugs to an unpleasant fate, who then places 426 in charge.

Also, it's strongly implied 1-424 hit much the same fate. Zin is an absolutely horrible boss. When he has Dr. Quest hostage, Zin prepares to fire a shot to blow up the Quest shuttle with Jonny and the rest of the team aboard. 426 stops him, telling him that it will reveal their position to the world before they're ready for invasion. Zin agrees she's right, but that she's wrong to tell him in such an 'impudent matter' and donates her to another project of the 'Mosquitoids' as a 'test subject,' dropping her down a pit to a horrible fate.

Capturing Dr. Quest and his comrade, Zin plans to painfully drain their knowledge from them, cloning a powerful new insects (which will be fatal to them), while also kicking off a manipulation of the world's weather to destroy food stores. All over the world, people are starving, social order breaks down, massive storms hit, cold snaps cause massive freezes, threatening millions of lives. Zin promises to lift it with earth's unconditional surrender to him, making him Emperor of Earth. The earth's nations are actually driven to the point of considering it....oh, when Dr. Quest escapes? Zin blames 427, who was not even in charge of watching Quest and has the begging, screaming man frozen solid (NOT harmless freezing, it explicitly kills him, and then he falls and shatters).

Jonny and team, however save Bentham and foil Zin's plot. zin's invasion is cut of, with his satellite destroyed...though the end shows Zin might have survived ye again.

'Any mitigating Qualities?

Zin is easily the worst in any continuity. While this may only be a clone (it's a bit unclear if original Zin died or transferred his mind...everyone just treats this as Zin himself), Zin threatens millions with full intent to kill them should he not be proclaimed emperor, loads of petty cruelty...and he's also one of the most petty, sadistic bosses I have ever seen who keeps killing off his henchpeople for absolutely no reason in shockingly horrible ways.

I mean, yeah, nothing much else to say

Conclusion?

I think film Zin makes it.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#226233: Aug 24th 2020 at 7:46:17 AM

[tup] Dr. Z

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#226234: Aug 24th 2020 at 7:47:18 AM

[tup] to Zin

Changing to a [tdown] on Smile, and pointing out issues with an EP (especially repeated ones) should mot be considered an attack

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#226237: Aug 24th 2020 at 7:48:38 AM

[tup]Zin

First for Tambor?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#226239: Aug 24th 2020 at 8:21:08 AM

Yes to Zin and thanks for the support there Library, this is a topic that we're gonna need to get passed the initial discomfort and face because it has deeper running implications for how things will run as a whole and it's not the time to play "I didn't like the exact way this point was worded."

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#226242: Aug 24th 2020 at 9:48:00 AM

[tup] Dr. Zin

Edited by nwotyzal on Aug 24th 2020 at 9:53:11 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#226245: Aug 24th 2020 at 11:06:25 AM

@Miraculous I don't think it's Tambor's first. Didn't he play the guy from Would You Rather?

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#226246: Aug 24th 2020 at 11:07:04 AM

That was Jeffrey Combs, actually.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#226248: Aug 24th 2020 at 11:12:01 AM

So seems like we can add Tambor to the list of people playing CMs while also (allegedly) not being a good person in real life. Along with Spacey, Mel Gibson, and Klaus Kinski.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#226249: Aug 24th 2020 at 11:13:49 AM

So Jonny Quest page ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#226250: Aug 24th 2020 at 11:15:31 AM

I can sympathize with wanting to call some of these people dicks for the shit they’ve said but I’m not sure it’s a great idea to constantly be noting and listing “bad people” actors.


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