During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Thank you for the heads-up. See you all soon after the transition.
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Got it. See you then!
Another unapproved Complete Monster entry I found, this time on thhe page for William Faulkner. I cut the entry, PM'd the person who added it, and linked to the thread. Anybody who wants to do an EP for these characters, feel free to do so:
- Complete Monster: Faulkner's novels often feature completely amoral characters as antagonists, such as the perverted sadist Popeye in Sanctuary and callous murderer Grumby in The Unvanquished.
I've copied the All Flesh stuff, the Incarnations, and the played/fought C Ms stuff to Word files.
This was found in the Drafts:
- Recall the Time of No Return: Brotonia, the queen of the Crimson Changelings, took the identity of Twilight Sparkle from a possible future 1000 years from the present day after defeating her and fooling everpony into thinking that it was the other way around for seven years. Flawlessly passing herself off as a Twilight Sparkle who had become paranoid about the Crimson Changelings invading Equestria in disguise, Brotonia quickly became a tyrannical ruler known to Equestria as Empress Twilight Sparkle, who had tens of thousands of ponies executed under "suspicion" of being Changelings, along with several thousand more who dared oppose her, and still more were killed by her monstrous Iron Wolves. At the same time, she herself had been replacing ponies for years with her Changelings, keeping the real ones underground in hundreds of cocoons. She had kept the real Twilight, along with Sterling, the young Alicorn meant to take the place of Princess Luna, in cocoons to act as sort of magic battery chargers, and attempted to doom Sterling's sister Gold Lily to the same fate. When Twilight's friends arrive in the future, Brotonia attempts to have them imprisoned in cocoons as well, and when Fluttershy attacks her, she has the guard who let go of her brutally killed by an Iron Wolf. She later mounts a deadly attack against Spike's rebel group which is soon joined by the real Future Twilight once she is freed, causing Brotonia's disguise to fail and expose her true self, and during the final fight with Twilight, Brotonia sends a massive energy blast at Twilight's castle, powerful enough to destroy it along with entire surrounding city.
The current writeup:
- Recall the Time of No Return: Brotonia, the queen of the Crimson Changelings, took Empress Twilight Sparkle's identity after defeating her 1000 years from the present day. As "Twilight", she quickly became a tyrannical ruler who pretended to have become paranoid about the Crimson Changelings invading Equestria in disguise. She had tens of thousands of ponies executed under "suspicion" of being Changelings, along with several thousand more who dared oppose her, and still more were killed by her monstrous Iron Wolves. At the same time, she herself had been replacing ponies for years with her Changelings, keeping the real ones underground in hundreds of cocoons. She had kept the real Twilight, along with Sterling, the young Alicorn meant to take the place of Princess Luna, in cocoons to act as sort of magic battery chargers, and attempted to doom Sterling's sister Gold Lily to the same fate. When Twilight's friends arrive in the future, she attempts to have them imprisoned in cocoons as well, and when Fluttershy attacks her, she has the guard who let go of her brutally killed by an Iron Wolf. She later mounts a deadly attack against Spike's rebel group, and during a fight with the real Twilight, sends a massive energy blast at Ponyville.
Edited by ACW on Aug 19th 2020 at 6:51:42 AM
Alrighty, I've delayed on this too long, too!
What's the work?
Hell's Rebels is the 17th Adventure Path from Pathfinder where the heroes are sent to the land of Kintargo in Cheliax. Long and short? The lord-mayor is a frigging nutjob and there's a rebellion brewing. So let's talk our villain: Paracount Lord Mayor, High Inquisitor Barzilai Thrune
Who is Barzilai?
A cousin of Queen Abrogail Thrune of the Thrice-Damned House of Thrune (I just like saying that), Barzilai was born into the House with a black reputation and wasted no time showing he was a bad seed with a dark obsessed with his sister Narcelia. Barzilai made her life hell, at one point murdering her cat in front of her. When he was caught spying on her in the bath, their mother beat him for it and proceeded to make that a habit for Barzilai's transgressions...real or imagined. Narcelia eventually fled the household, which ramped up Barzilai's issues with his mother.
Now, Barzilai entered the church of Asmodeus and rose high. In fact, he planned to merge with the land of Cheliax and become a Genius Loci, to become Cheliax itself. He made a dark pact with the archdevil Mephistopheles for a plot to merge with Cheliax with one stipulation: if he died before natural causes, his soul would be damned to suffer torments for the rest of his lifespan to become a demon, something Barzilai was determined to avoid. Barzilai requested to go to the city of Kintargo and Queen Abrogail was more than happy to be rid of her crazy creep of a cousin.
Barzilai was a tyrant worse than ever. He had the lord mayor abducted and forcibly turned into a vampire, having loads of people killed and tortured in what the House of Thrune calls Excruciations: mass public tortures, his preferred example being Doghousing: the victim placed in a spiked doghouse, forced to kneel or be impaled, with food thrown in they have to compete with rabid dogs for. Barzilai enacts terrible laws, killing and torturing loads of people, subjecting them to excruciations and trying to exterminate the poorest districts as part of his plots. Barzilai attempts to go on mass killing sprees with the PC's stopping him. Victims are excruciated at increasing rates as he also launches clandestine murder sprees across Kintargo to increase unrest. Barzilai's authority is dismantled by the heroes prompting him to nearly have Kintargo devastated by a dragon ally. Finally, Barzilai is confronted and slain...
Which sends him to hell, but he uses undead remnants to cause more slaughters and murder, sending out devil serial killers to butcher people...eventually the heroes have to go to hell to face Barzillai who has become a Bone Devil, planning to merge with Cheliax and turn it into a new hell....in a final batte, Barzillai's plots are undone and he is slain in hell, being wiped out forevermore.
Heinousness?
For a nasty tyrant? Barzillai's really bad, with tons of atrocity and torture that puts him above most evil rulers, even his far more powerful cousin. IT takes like Geb and Tar-Baphon who rule huge areas and are far, far more powerful. Barzillai is an utter psycho who plans on way past his weight class and holy hell, is Doghousing as bad as it gets.
Mitigating Qualities?
No. Barzillai's abuse was because he was a fucked up little pervert torturing and creeping on his sister, and in present he's a sadistic nutjob who even the other Thrunes despise...and Abrogail is a vicious despot who thinks Barzillai's a freak. Beyond that, he's just an overly ambitious monster plotting to merge with the land and turn it to hell on Golarion.
Conclusion?
Keeper.
Barzilai
A dark case of Mayor Pain.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."I've got three candidates from the same artist, which was recommended to me by a friend of mine.
What's the Work?
Dark Funeral is a heavy death metal band that, as per typical of its genre, tells stories with usually dark lyrics. Their songs seem to detail different settings that occasionally contradict each other, so I'll consider each song as different works from each other and thus with different heinousness standards. For this particular candidate, I'll be focusing on Beast Above Man
(lyrics here
), which takes place from the perspective of a vicious cannibal, who is the subject of this effort post.
Who is the Unnamed Cannibal and What Has He Done?
The unnamed cannibal is a sadistic nihilist who wants to relieve people of the "burden of life." To that end, he murders and eats his victims with his sharpened claws, ultimately hoping to destroy one particular community, which he refers to a "temple." Already having murdered numerous people, he's developed an infamous reputation for himself before trying to murder and consume the narrator himself. During the chase, he reveals his whole world philosophy to him.
On top of explaining his nihilistic viewpoint, he refers to himself as a devil who wants nothing more than to consume and massacre the entire world "til nothing is left." In addition to threatening to kill the narrator by slitting their wrists and throats, he insanely declares himself to be like a devil, in which he'll condemn the narrator's soul and bring him down to hell before continuing his genocidal campaign to massacre the world.
Does He Have Any Mitigating Qualities or Freudian Excuse?
Although he claims to be saving people, this is just him enforcing his nihilistic viewpoint on others and slaughtering as many people as he can. Not to mention that he takes way too much enjoyment out of his murders to be considered well-intentioned. No Freudian Excuse to speak of either.
Does He Meet the Heinousness Standard?
As mentioned above, I'm considering each song as a different setting and he's the only major antagonist here. Despite his limited resources as a single cannibal, he ultimately wishes to kill every human on Earth and murders people in an extremely brutal fashion. Pass.
Final Verdict
What do you guys think?
Edited by DrUnknown on Aug 19th 2020 at 5:46:30 AM
- The King and the Mockingbird: The Painting of King Charles is tyrant who views himself as entitled to have the love of the Shepherdess. He murders his creator and takes his place in order to send the police force after her and the Chimney Sweep, killing any of them who displease him without a second thought. In order to get his bride, Charles endangers his subjects without a second thought and threatens to force the Shepherdess to watch him feed her love to lions to force her to marry him, and attempts to do so to a blind musician for annoying him. Even after she agrees, he condemns the Chimney Sweep and the Mockingbird to hard labor, and later attempts to have them fed to the lions anyway. When his plans are foiled, he attempts to kill the Chimney Sweep and Shepherdess in a fit of spite. Despite being only a portrait of the original, the Painting of King Charles proves himself more vile than his creator ever was.
Edited by Godzillawolf on Aug 19th 2020 at 9:49:41 AM
