During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
And for my last, Fistful o'Zombies, from the scenario Spaghetti with Meat I give you the wicked zombie outlaw, Pete "Scratch" Wilson.
Who is Scratch Wilson?
To discover Scratch, we must discuss aconman named Alouicious Rheems, a snake-oil salesman who went west selling a potion to soldiers. Making an accidental pact with the devil "to bring peace to the wounded and life to the dead"...Lucifer listened. Scratch Wilson caught up with Rheems with his gang, the Texas Devils and took apart his wagon. Now, he figured the potion was nothing more than rotgut whiskey and having a bad gut shot, he knew it might numb the pain. He took a swig...Scratch killed Rheems, but he and his gang died...but rose again, Scratch as their leader.
Scratch splits the Texas Devils into groups...sending them out to pillage, slaughter and raise more as zombies, albeit slower and less intelligent than he and the 'first batch.' Scratch seeks a massive array of gold, supposedly buried in the town of Cerbeza, so Scratch is taking his time in recruitment, killing people along the way and "planning a bloody raid that will make the atrocities of the Civil War look like a tussle in a kindergarten sandbox."
Scratch pays a group of bandits to ride in and gun up the town, with the heroes on the trail as the zombie lord and seventeen of his men hangback. Scratch will happily herd the townsfolk into a building to burn it down, use human shields he'll execute himself.
Things end in a showdown, with only blessed weaponry able to put old Scratch down for good...good luck.
'Heinosuness?
Oh, easily for a western story. Tons of dead, plans a huge slaughter...nothing much else to say. The Zombie Master is openly encouraged to get as dirty and wicked and graphic as possible with Scratch because "he is a bad, bad man."
Mitigating Qualities?
Not a damn thing for old Scratch.
Conclusion?
And that's it for All Flesh!
Scratch, Morgana Le Fay, Mordred.
The Film
Undeclared War, a 1990 action... nevermind, Lighty got this covered.
Edited by RobertTYL on Aug 16th 2020 at 1:19:27 AM
![]()
You what... (quickly checks the main list) darn it, he's already there. Oh well.
Can someone just link the movie's page on the CM list? Since the main list is locked under Administrivia? Thanks.
'Yes' to Morgana, Mordred, and Scratch
Alright, with AgeOfTropeEmpire having decided to relinquish his discussion for this series, myself and Miraculous will be covering it and taking over reservations for it in the future. For now, with part 1 of 3 released? We've got a candidate apiece.
What's the work?
Transformers: War for Cybertron Trilogy: Siege is a recently-released new entry (Part 1 of 3) in the Transformers franchise, serving as its own take on the canon of the story, but also retelling a familiar setting: A dying Cybertron is the battleground for a war fought between the evil Decepticons and the heroic Autobots, lead by Optimus Prime.
Leader of the Decepticons, no one asks?
Who is he?
Megatron is the Big Bad as is tradition for the franchise.
Once upon a time, Megatron was just another laborer and gladiator, his "destiny" decided for him by the planet Cybertron itself and the elite Autobots. Growing disenfranchised with this life of practical slavery, Megatron rousted an army christened the Decepticons for a "revolution" against the Autobots...one that turns into a bloody war soon enough.
What has he done?
Before the series' beginning, Megatron murdered his and Optimus Prime's mentor, Alpha Trion, when the bot opposed Megatron's schemes of revolution. Staging his war on the Autobots, Megatron's war claimed countless lives of both the soldiers and innocents, ultimately leaving Cybertron an utter wreck at the start of the series. Having assumed control of Cybertron, Megatron gives a simple ultimatum to its inhabitants: Join the Decepticons, or die.
Those who oppose Megatron? We see throughout the series are, uh, not treated well. A pair of psycho Decepticons have decorated a battlefield with impaled Autobots. Prisoners of war are enslaved. Retreating and surrendering Autobots are coldly shot in the back. Hence why, when Megatron offers a "truce" with the Autobots, Optimus isn't exactly quick to accept it.
Introduced to the story offering a captured Autobot the chance to join the Decepticon cause, Megatron responds to the rejection by ordering the Autobot executed where he stand. When a factionless bot named Bumblebee—who assisted the Autobot in scavenging in exchange for money—pleads that he has no place in the war and to be let go, Megatron just mocks him for cowardice and orders him killed as well.
When the Autobot co-leader Ultra Magnus surrenders himself to plead with Megatron to end the conflict and change the terms of his "treaty", Megatron refuses anything but complete subjugation of the Autobots and imprisons him....around this time, Shockwave reveals a scheme he has concocted to use the legendary, near mythical Allspark as a weapon to utterly destroy the minds of all Autobots and "reformat" them into Decepticons.
Megatron, noting he must "consider" the idea, instead sets a trap using Ultra Magnus in an attempt to wipe out the Autobots. When most Autobots escape alive, Megatron gives Shockwave the go-ahead to begin his quest for the Allspark, and has Ultra Magnus be horribly tortured unendingly to learn info on the Autobots, threatening Shockwave himself with murder when Shockwave expresses annoyance with Megatron taking too long to order the torture begin.
Though Ultra Magnus seems to break and give up the Autobots, when Megatron realizes Ultra Magnus is lying and sending them on a wild goose chase, he blasts a hole through the bot's chest. This leading Jetfire to be horrified, Megatron orders Jetfire be murdered when Jetfire protects the Autobot base from discovery.
Megatron soon enough has Shockwave unleash a vicious virus that wipes out Autobot computers and databases across Cybertron...when Soundwave pleads with Megatron to reconsider, as the virus will damage Cybertron itself and lead to chaos, Megatron completely ignores the 'Con and orders Shockwave to use the virus.
Orchestrating mass attacks on Autobot locations after finding their base, Megatron proudly proclaims his intent to commit genocide against the entire faction. However, when Megatron learns that Optimus is planning to remove the Allspark from Cybertron to prevent Megatron from getting his hands on it, Megatron quickly has an Oh, Crap! reaction as he believes the old legends that if the Allspark is removed from Cybertron, the planet will die.
Confronting Optimus, Megatron duels and tries to kill the heroic Prime, bragging all the while of the coming annihilation of the Autobots, but ultimately Optimus manages to use a Space bridge to transport himself, the Allspark, and a group of Autobots off of Cybertron, protecting the Allspark from Megatron and leaving the story off with Megatron in control of Cybertron—which has decidedly not started dying from the removal of the Allspark, implying that the legend was a mere myth.
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?
Megatron is hyped up as being a sympathetic portrayal by many who have seen the series.
Megatron is totally correct that the Decepticons having their lots in life chosen for them to be slaves and gladiators was jacked up, and it's noted that his original intentions were pure and wanting better for Decepticons with his revolution, but...thing is? Megatron is flat out stated to have become nothing but a power mad warlord out for himself by the time of the present.
He wants the Autobots to accept his "peace" treaty and "end this bloody conflict", but Megatron's idea of peace is "serve me or die." He immediately and snarkingly orders prisoners of war killed if they refuse to serve him. He allows nutbar sadists and butchers to run rampant in his ranks, and as the series goes on, Megatron's bloodthirsty ways only increase. Megatron even regularly badmouths and threatens his "fellow Decepticons" with torture and murder for failure or even mild challenges to his power, and reacts to the loyal Jetfire's betrayal with a simple "Disappointing." before ordering him be killed with a smirk.
Now, when ordering Ultra Magnus be tortured, Megatron is noted to have set up "limits" to Shockwave's methods in the past, but Megatron quickly proclaims "Do whatever it takes" and overrides any limits. When Shockwave proposes his plan to reformat the Autobots, Megatron doesn't immediately spring for it, noting "(Win the war) by...reformatting the Autobots? I must consider this..." Only to then eagerly and unflinchingly tell Shockwave to begin the plan when his latest attempt of murder on the Autobots fails.
Megatron may have standards—however mild—by the start of the season, but he drops every last one without issue as the season goes on, overcoming any mild hesitance to only then go through with the atrocities without issue. The series shows Megatron's backend Jumping Off the Slippery Slope, as he has become fixated on not his original goal of liberation of the Decepticons, but domination of all Cybertron, and things that would have once made him cringe, he now does with a shrug.
Oh, and Megatron being horrified at Optimus trying to take the Allspark away? Not redeeming. Megatron delivers a What the Hell, Hero? to Optimus and accuses him of hypocrisy for trying to do "something worse than I ever could" by possibly dooming Cybertron, but Megatron's only true "standard" for the situation is that's hes a total Control Freak and despot who obviously doesn't want his planet destroyed because it leaves him with nothing to rule.
Heinousness?
Megatron's the worst in the series thus far, easily. As I said, there's another candidate coming soon from Miraculous, but besides him, no one else really stands out at the moment like, say, Starscream, who has potential but is lacking quite enough standout deeds....Megatron, on the other hand, has tons of murder and bloodshed on his hands, has Ultra Magnus tortured really, really brutally before executing him, threatens his own minions regularly, plans to either commit genocide against the Autobots or completely alter their minds and bodies to turn them into loyal Deceptions.
Final Verdict?
Even though only part one, Siege, has currently released? I'd say Yes. Megatron's supposed standards are shed hella fast, his Freudian Excuse has very little focus and is explicitly called out as something he's moved passed to just replace with his desire for power, and he's more than nasty enough himself to count.
Edited by Ravok on Aug 15th 2020 at 11:47:34 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Yes, look at literally 90% of reviews or forum discussion and you will find people under the illusion that Megatron is portrayed more conflicted and sympathetic than usual, and that Optimus is just as "morally grey"... don't really see how they come to that conclusion unless they're completely buying Megatron's explicit bullshit propaganda.
Edited by Ravok on Aug 15th 2020 at 11:59:53 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Yes to Megatron. Is the show any good? It sounds like it would be.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

Doubt if there's a whole lot of depth to that one line about loving her: yes to both.