During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
FWIW I actually read this recently (for kinda a silly reason...) and at least one of the villains is quite definitely on my "would do an EP if I ever had the time". I probably won't have the time anytime in the near future, but I'm certainly willing to share with Lighty or whoever else is actually willing to do it.
Jusy wondering, anyone here saw that movie from yesteryear, The Rookies?
I was thinking if the villains can count as a CM... them being a group of Eco-Terrorist led by an Evilutionary Biologist called Iron Fist (no, not the Marvel character) who believes "mankind is a poison to the environment" and leads a cult who is dedicated to cleanse humanity off the surface of Earth. To achieve that, Iron Fist managed to obtain a Depopulation Bomb called the "Green Virus", which can forcibly transform humans into plants, which they successfully unleash in New York turning the whole city's population into trees. And they intend to do the same to the whole world, on the basis that "mother nature should be restored to its natural, clean state".
Does that sound CM-worthy? Or would the "Erasing humanity out of genuine love towards mother nature" part disqualify them for CM status?
Edited by RobertTYL on Aug 15th 2020 at 3:56:57 PM
Okay, for Breath of Fire, before I submit Rasso, the other 2 entries (especially Yuna) need rewrites:
- Breath of Fire II: Father Habaruku is the founder of the St. Eva Church, which steals the souls of its believers in order to power up Deathevan. His favorite method for winning followers seems to be replacing respected members of various communities with literal demons that disguise themselves as those people. He also replaced a man who used to be in charge of the church, a priest who was such a compassionate, big-hearted, and lovable character, and your father. He got booted off the scene so that Habaruku could take over, then strapped to a horrible demonic contraption and his life energy itself is used to power it for about ten years.
- Breath of Fire IV:
- Yuna comes off as little more than a self-righteous, smarmy little git until you complete the dungeon of his lab and you see that he's taken Nina's sister and made her into some sort of genetically modified horror, telling all about the "wonderful gift" he's given her, and looking for some kind of praise. Yuna also built a weapon of warfare that launches Hex, a toxic gas, physically. It's actually the souls of people tortured at the hands of Yuna and the more anguish they have, the better the effect. You can see this in a side event and its effects are presented in the village of Chamba in the beginning of the game. The way the player experiences its horror just drives the point home. At one point in the game, we are introduced to Mami, a genuinely likable love interest for Fou-lu. Just as it seems she's going to reform him, she's taken away and tortured to the point of insanity so she can be used to fuel an attack against the poor guy. When he discovers this, he decides that Humans Are the Real Monsters and becomes intent on destroying them.
@RobertTYL: Ehhhhh, I'd have to say no. This person sounds like a Well-Intentioned Extremist. The fact that he's going as far as to turn people into plants to save the world from humanity shows that he's really dedicated to his cause and not using it as an excuse to needlessly murder people.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.Habaraku seems okay for the most Part. Let me just clean up the last two sentences. Not familiar with this game so if anyone wants to expand go ahead.
- Father Habaruku is the founder of the St. Eva Church, which steals the souls of its believers in order to power up Deathevan. His favorite method for winning followers seems to be replacing respected members of various communities with literal demons that disguise themselves as those people. In order to gain control of the church, Habaruku had his predecessor and the kindly father of the protagonist removed from the position before having him strapped to a horrible demonic contraption with his life energy itself used to power it for about ten years.
Edited by miraculous on Aug 15th 2020 at 5:47:34 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."- Breath of Fire II: Father Habaruku is the founder of the St. Eva Church, which steals the souls of its believers in order to power up Deathevan. His favorite method for winning followers seems to be replacing respected members of various communities with literal demons that disguise themselves as those people. In order to gain control of the church, Habaruku had his kindly predecessor Ganer Bateson—also Ryu Bateson's father—removed from the position before having him strapped to a horrible demonic contraption with his life energy itself used to power it for about ten years.
To respond to the point about Reservoir Dogs from last page, Mr. Blonde is sort of unique in that while he doesn't kill anyone on screen, him massacaring a bunch of civilians at the jewel heist is a major plot point that's constantly brought up it just isn't shown on-camera. It's not offscreen villany because of how the film is set up to where you never see the crime, only the aftermath.
Yes to Herr Doktor, too. Okay, time to finish All Flesh.
First? Mordred and his mother Morgan le Fay.
Who are Mordred and morgan?
From Death of the Round Table, Camelot has fallen into disrepair and decadence, Lancelot banished after his affair with Guinevere. Morgan le fay seizes the Holy Grail and corrupts it to poison all who drink it to rise as zombie minions. Mordred brainwashes Guinevere to marry him and takes the throne...Morgan hits the land with zombies and Mordred lures Arthur's knights in to kill them and raise them, one by one.
Morgan and Mordred unleash a plague like a proto black death to ravage the land, of course raising anyone who dies as zombies. Anyone bitten dies and rises in 5 minutes. All twenty five knights have drunk from the corrupted grail and become even stronger undead, with only Lancelot being saved thanks to his exile. should he heroes get to Guinevere and get her help, Mordred sends his zombies to kill her.
Morgan spends her time spreading the plague, adding to the undead ranks and intending in killing and enslaving most of Britain. As detailed, Morgan is defeated when the heroes free Merlin, who destroys Morgan by aging her into dust. Mordred unleashes an army of the dead and the heroes must lead the armies with Arthur and Lancelot to finish him for good.
Mitigating Factors?
No issues with heinousness, being dual partners in the affair and wide spreads of death for an Arthurian fantasy. The two are never even mentioned to love one another. The only person it says Mordred loves is Guinevere, but given he sends his zombies to murder her the second she becomes a problem with no remorse or anxiety over it...not sure how seriously that can be taken. Beyond that? Nada.
Conclusion?
Morgans a clear cut yes, Mordred is a bit harder but I'll leave it to you

Leaning 'No' on the Wraith, all told
Here's a new one for all y'all from that classic American entertainment story G.I. Joe! From the original Marvel run...
Who is he?
Doktor Otto Totenschadel (German for "skull") is a particularly nasty one-shot villain from #3 of the Special Missions subseries, titled "Words of Honor."
What has he done?
As the story kicks off, a Nazi airbomber is found frozen solid in Greenland, and Totenschadel contacts the American government, revealing himself be in hiding in Brazil and in possession of knowledge that the bomber plane is filled with tons of nerve gas that are still highly dangerous.
As is then revealed, Totenschadel is a Nazi war criminal, wanted for his hand in overseeing the Sachsenhausen and Natzweiller-Struthof concentration camps and developing bioweapons the Nazis used in the war. And now, Totenschadel has been discovered by a group of Israeli militants, who seek to kill him for his war crimes...and Totenschadel hopes to bargain with America to help them disarm the nerve gas in exchange for protection and immunity.
As a G.I. Joe team lead by Recondo head out to parlay with Totenschadel—who is currently in the care of fellow former Nazis— a group of G.I. Joes arrive in Greenland to investigate the bomber...where they come under attack by Cobra, revealing that Totenschadel also contacted Cobra with the information, fully willing to help them utilise the weaponised gas and "threaten millions" if they get to it before the American government.
As Recondo makes a deal with Totenschadel, the Israeli militants arrive and reveal the full extent of Totenschadel's horror:
Though Totenschadel continues to hope the deal with enact, his dreams are shattered when the Joes manage to disarm the nerve toxin all on their own...and in the process, discover evidence of even more of Totenschadel's treachery. Turns out, the plane frozen in the ice? Totenschadel was part of a two-plane transport group during World War II, one planning to use his nerve gas to wipe out New York, the other spiriting away millions in stolen gold from prisoners of war to establish a "New Reich."
Totenschadel, having realized that gassing New York would result in him becoming a priority target for assassination, decided to make himself a buck and disappear...Totenschadel convinced both planes to land, gunned down both entire crews of his fellow Nazis, and left the nerve gas plane to be lost in the wintry blazes while he spirited the gold away and lived a life of luxury, evading punishment for his crimes for decades.
Simply proclaiming that he never said he was a "nice person" when confronted with his many atrocities, Totenschadel holds Recondo to his word that he would protect the Nazi from the Israelis, and indeed, Recondo follows through, ordering Ibraham and his militants to leave Totenschadel in peace....of course, those fellow Nazis I mentioned currently housing Totenschadel? Yeah, they overheard everything, and as a horrified Totenschadel proclaims that they'll kill him, Recondo coldly remarks "We made a deal to protect you from the Israelis. Not your own kind."
As the Joes leave, their mission complete, Totenschadel is last scene begging for his life to his fellow Nazis, promising them his fortunes as they just sneer for him to take his coming fate "like a man", just as shots ring out from the building...
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?
Uhhhh....Nazi war criminal Josef Mengel Expy?
No, nothing. Totenschadel is a massive prick, valuing himself and his prosperity over everything else. He used the Nazis to carry out his heinous atrocities, then promptly ditched and killed his allies when he decided to cut his losses and come out rich. Thwarting the gassing of New York could have been a redeeming trait, but no, Totenschadel made the gas fully aware of the countless lives it could take, but decided last minute the ensuing infamy wouldn't be worth it. Totally pragmatic decision, no standards there.
Heinousness?
For a one-shot villain, Totenschadel is....really atrociously disgusting. His "experiments" with the nerve gas aren't seen onscreen, but they're a major subject of the whole damn comic, and Ibraham gives a tearful, emotional speech of the horrors Totenschadel committed, so I don't think this falls into Offscreen Villainy one bit. And his murdering of his entire Nazi crew is onscreen, as well as, y'know, fully willing to hand the nerve gas over to Cobra knowing they'll try to kill millions with it.
So, a Nazi who killed thousands in experiments to make a horrifying nerve gas that he plans to let the Nazis use to kill millions, only to betray and kill his allies when the heat gets to be too worrisome, then tries to hand the gas off to Cobra decades later to again kill millions.
It's notable, it's vile, it's treated extremely seriously as it should be, and every single person who interacts with Totenschadel ends the comic utterly repulsed and disgusted with him, even fellow Nazis.
Final Verdict?
I'd say that's a Bingo.
Edited by Ravok on Aug 14th 2020 at 8:16:44 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!