During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Looking at the character sheet for Dark Souls III. I think High Lord Wolnir makes for a good candidate
- The Caligula: This guy might have been even worse than the Old Iron King. In life, he conquered the desert kingdoms of Carthus by brute violence, becoming their sole High Lord. When he fell to the Abyss, he began killing clerics and looting their corpses for bracelets that could stave off his demise. When that didn't work, he set up shop in the catacombs in a deliberate attempt to damn as many people as he could to the Abyss to prolong his own existence. His title in the Japanese script is even "Tyrant King".
The only thing that might disqualify him is that he begged to the gods to save him from the abyss, although that's not very much
Yeah, I said earlier that I was going to submit an entry for the Ultra Series... but actually sod that, here's another Hong Kong film that might be good enough (and it's a two-fer!)
The Movie
Big Bullet, a 1996 action flick directed by Benny Chan, starring Sean Lau as Sergeant Bill Chu, a former decorated officer in the police force, but has since been demoted to a trainer to a bunch of new, inexperienced recruits after a botched mission. Inevitably, Bill and his team of recruits ends up being involved in an escort mission to transport a dangerous prisoner - a world-class super-terrorist mastermind called the Professor.
The Candidate(s)
The Professor (Yu Rong-guang) is a terrorist mastermind who commands a band of equally well-trained operatives, overseen by his dragon, a brute called "The Bird" (Anthony Wong, who graced the CM list at least 3 times). They establish themselves as a legititmate threat when the Bird and several henchmen, disguised as traffic cops, stops the Professor's prison transport - and proceed to whip out concealed shotguns and blast apart policemen in the vehicle at point-blank. The Professor, while being handcuffed, overpowers his guards and violently shoves one of them face-first into the metal railings of the transport, with a good dose of Facial Horror killing him.
Deciding to retaliate over his arrest, the Professor would send Bird and one of his henchmen to execute the Police Superintendant behind his capture, which they did by publicly barging into a restaurant where the Superintendant and his fiancee are dining. Forcing both of them to sit down at gunpoint, Bird cruelly shoots the fiancee at point-blank for crying in fear, while ordering the henchman blows off the Superintendant's arm with a shotgun as Bird gleefully pumps additional rounds to finish him off. The gunshots raises the attention of Sergeant Bill and his team of police outside, at which point the Professor and the rest of his henchmen shows up, leading to a shootout where the Professor, Bird, and their men indiscriminately fires automatic weapons everywhere, killing cops, civilians, restaurant staff, and the like. The Professor even threw a grenade to blow up a water truck in the middle of a crowded public square to cover his escape while blasting his machine-gun everywhere, before killing Bill's close friend, Inspector Ng, by stabbing him through the gut.
Revealing themselves to be after the local Interpol's vault, the Professor bribed a group of hooligans to instigate a riot in a local red-light district, having them destroy bars, nightclubs, beat up policemen and cause general unrest while the Professor, the Bird and their operatives plans to rob 900 million USD from the Interpol and subsequently hijack an airplane from the nearby military airfield for an escape. When caught by the Interpol, the Professor, the Bird and their henchmen simply massacres their way out, killing everyone that gets in their way, with the Professor even stopping to gun down a passing random traffic cop that's not involved in the shootout, simply For the Evulz. When Sergeant Bill managed to gun down their getaway driver, the Bird doesn't even bat an eye and simply throws out his corpse while taking over the wheel, gleefully cheering over the sound of the Professor and another henchmen firing automatic weapons at literally everyone that gets in their way.
Making their way into the airfield, the Professor and the Bird hijacks a military plane by killing every personnel on board, hauls their 900 million into the cargo hold, and prepares to takeoff. Sergrant Bill and his team managed to infiltrate the plane by crashing their jeep into the cargo hold, but ends up getting captured by the Professor and the other terrorists, at which point the Professor gleefully threatens to shoot Sergeant Bill non-fatally in his arms, legs, shoulders, and everywhere on his body to make him suffer as long as possible (and force Bill's subordinates to WATCH), but luckily before he can do that the fleeing military plane hits a jeep on the runway, knocking everyone on board off their feet. In the ensuing struggle while Bill and the Professor takes their fight on top the wings of the moving plane, the Bird takes glee in beating up Bill's protege Inspector Chiu, a much smaller policeman, choking Chiu and flinging him all over the place, intending to kill him slowly and painfully and telling him, "I'm the Bird. Remember my name as you die..." whereas the Professor, gaining upper hand in his fight against Bill, gives Bill a No-Holds-Barred Beatdown and intends to have Bill flung under the wheels of the military plane.
Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse
None. The Professor and the Bird are a pair of ex-military operatives who took a delight in killing, and clearly revels in bloodshed and slaughter. The Bird especially spends much of his screentime gloating and enjoying the sight of people being killed. They don't really care for each other either; the reason the Bird breaks the Professor out of prison is because he needs his boss to pull off that massive heist at the end of the film.
Heinousness Standard
As far as terrorists and cop-killers goes, I suppose they're good enough to pass.
Final Verdict
I guess the Professor and the Bird can count.
Edited by RobertTYL on Aug 15th 2020 at 12:42:44 AM
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Oh, in the aftermath of the final battle, thankfully both of them got their own Karmic Death. No Karma Houdini here unlike my previous nomination. The Bird, while trying to kill Chiu, fail to notice Chiu unhooking a cable holding a parked jeep in place, resulting in the jeep sliding towards Bird and crushing him, while the Professor, trying to throw Bill off the plane, ends up having Bill grab his boot and both of them falling over, where the Professor himself gets run over by the plane's wheels instead which misses Bill entirely. The youngest rookie officer, Apple, who is in the cockpit after knocking out the last terrorist, managed to stop it from taking off via Percussive Maintenance. Bill and his team gets awarded in the aftermath of the film.
Edited by RobertTYL on Aug 15th 2020 at 12:40:07 AM
Yea to those there. The problem with Wolnir is heinousness, but we run into more offscreen problems than Dark Souls usually does since unlike Aldrich/Sulyvahn, Wolnir's actions are far in the past and don't affect much of...anything really. He's just a big skeleton you meet and send to the Abyss.
Whereas sulyvahn is responsible for the decayed ruin of Lordran, feeding Gwyndolin to Aldrich, twisting his followers into monsters...all directly encountered
For my next All Flesh...from Zombie Smackdown: Necrohammer.
Who is Necrohammer?
The chief villain of Land of the Undead Rising Sun, Necrohammer is a wrestler who opens by murdering and zombifying a man named Kano while slaughtering others nearby. Ages ago there lived an Oni called The Suffering Priest who fed upon the pain of its victims. now, the Suffering Priest follows its nature, but was defeated and sealed off. Discovering it, Necrohammer made a dark pact or five.
Necrohammer relished hurting others in the ring, feeding the Suffering Priest who reached out to Necrohammer. Necrohammer eagerly became his agent on earth. A world champion, Necrohammer kills his opponents in the ring who rise instantly as zombies ater their torturous execution with none the wiser. Necrohammer spreads his zombies to torture and kill, raising more by way of forces for the Suffering Priest, using the agony of his victims to feed his master. Sometimes they set off and Necrohammer has them slaughter groups of partygoers or groupie while also murdering and zombifying key figures in the industry to get away with torture and murder in the ring. End result will be the Suffering Priest strong enough to be released and set about to cause unending agony for the world to feast upon...Necrohammer unaware how disposable he truly is.
Heinousness?
A torturing serial killer, to say the least. Necrohammer easily goes above his weight class in his plot to hand the world over to the Priest. While the Priest is locked away, Necrohammer does everything of his own volition and has a sizable count while trying to threaten the world, way worse than anyone else in this particular module.
Mitigating Qualities?
None. The Suffering Priest itself can't count due to its nature. It's not evil, it just got corrupted by drinking too much agony. It's a force for evil, sure, but it's too inhuman...unlike Necrohammer who knows the implications and carries on happily with it.
Conclusion?
Also a yea
Yes to Necrohammer. Is he only in "Land of the Undead Rising Sun"?
Also, a zombie Kano? Huh. Though I know we've had Kano KILL a zombie.
Edited by ACW on Aug 14th 2020 at 2:06:54 PM
He is. One more All Flesh for now: from Dungeons and Zombies, the adventure Dead Gods and Demon Lands....Ahriman
Who is Ahriman?
Welcome to Iurth, afantasy realm with frequently meddlesome gods. Ahriman is a god banished from another realm, strongly implied to be the Zoroastrian Earth where Ahura Mazda cast him out. Ahriman corrupted what he found, torturing beings into orcs and turning others into the first Zombie Lords to serve his designs. Ahriman started a war with his forces massacring everything in their paths en masse. Then Ahura Mazda arrived himself, to rally the forces of good against Ahriman...Ahriman was pushed back, even as a goddess named Kali joined the fight with him. Ahriman caused mass slaughters throughout the world, but the first age ended and he was driven back.
Still, as the adventure begins, Ahriman is probably the strongest of the four chief gods and reigns with Kali, adding to his zombie ranks for the day when he unleashes his forces and eventually betrays Kali, plotting to twist the world into a tortured reflection of his black soul so he may know the worship of everything. Ahriman' rituals? He directs hi forces to slaughter, consume the hearts of victims and raise them as zombies to tear across all Iurth. Countless others are enslaved, with Ahriman planning on taking everything.
any mitigating factors?
None. It's brief, but Ahriman's levels of titanic bloodshed and the horrific nature of zombies are made quite clear from the word go. In addition, his plans are far reaching and global. He and Kali are a couple, but she's described as more neutral and with good qualities than evil, and Ahriman plots to betray and destroy her when she interferes with him killing the other gods and ruling solo.
Conclusion?
Easy keep. First of three from this particular book, then one final from the western path

Yes to Conrack, Penes (still cracks me up), and Rasputin.
Wait, KEVIN JAMES as a CM? What movie was that?
Also, didn't realize We Summon the Darkness already had a page. Guess I figured Butler would have been proposed by now.