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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Sebeck1468 Since: Jul, 2019
#225028: Aug 13th 2020 at 4:45:12 PM

Does anyone else think Kenny, the main bully from Let Me In, warrants an inclusion as a complete monster? Let me list the reasons:

He clearly enjoys causing the main character Owen as much pain and humiliation as he possibly can and as often as he can for no reason other than sadism.

His abuse of Owen is portrayed completely seriously and throughout the movie its shown Owens traumatized by the abuse kenny inflicts on him.

His bullying includes attacking Owen until he wets himself from the pain/terror and kicks him as he leaves laughing at him. He whips him with a metal antenna,scarring his cheek. He threatens and attempts to throw him into a freezing lake. And when Owen stands up to him for the first time his response is to enlist his older brother to attack him in a pool, where they plan to either drown him or cut one of his eyes out.

He never shows the slightest hint of regret for causing Owen so much suffering.

His relationship with his brother doesnt seem to count as Even Evil Has Loved Ones to me. Its shown to be rather antagonistic and in their single scene together they almost break out into a fight.

Even the other bullies seemed shocked at how cruel and sadistic he can be.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#225029: Aug 13th 2020 at 4:46:32 PM

No, not nearly close enough. He wouldn't even count on his own in a vacuum but Let Me In includes a child vampire and her guardian who are serial killers, without any bones that they kill innocent people.

being a nasty bully, even one who tries to kill one person, is not a CM.

Edited by Lightysnake on Aug 13th 2020 at 4:47:02 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#225030: Aug 13th 2020 at 4:51:52 PM

[up][up] that’s more in line with Hate Sink than CM

Edited by G-Editor on Aug 13th 2020 at 1:51:40 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Sebeck1468 Since: Jul, 2019
#225031: Aug 13th 2020 at 4:59:05 PM

I always saw Let Me In as a Humans Are the Real Monsters story. Yes, abby kills people but she needs to in order to live. While Kennys abuse of Owen has no other motive other than pure sadism.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#225032: Aug 13th 2020 at 5:00:32 PM

She still kills innocent people. Lots of them. She does so by pretending to be a hurt child so kind people will try to help her, regardless of her remorse.

A nasty bully is not going to qualify for a trope meant to be for the worst of the worst. Murderers, rapists, torturers, etc

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#225033: Aug 13th 2020 at 5:02:39 PM

[tup] Conrak

Eh, I'll just unload my write-ups for this week.

  • Tales of Crestoria: Malcom Sloat is a scientist who seeks to create a system where humans can change their appearance by swapping souls with each other. Testing this hypothesis on humans and monsters, Sloat has transgressors kidnapped, their souls forced into the body of monsters and vice versa, uncaring if the subjects are killed by his scientists. With children not being safe from his experiments, Sloat was also responsible for using Emil Castagnier as a test subject, injecting him with enough monster souls to create the toxic split personality Ratatosk, which he views as a personal achievement. With dozens upon dozens of body bags filling his lair, when he’s encountered by the protagonists, Sloat can only brag about his intelligence before attempting to kill them with his prototype monster.
  • Worlds of Power:
    • Blaster Master: The Plutonium Boss is a sadistic Planetary Parasite who feeds on a planet’s radiation. Ingraining itself into a planet’s core and slowly killing it as it feasts on the core’s radiation, once the Plutonium Boss has had its fill, it arises from the ground and annihilates everyone on the planet. Doing this to Eve’s home planet Signar-el before moving on to Earth, the Plutonium Boss experiments on organisms to make them its mutated warriors, including a teenage human named Alex. Kidnapping Eve to lure Jason Frudnick and Alex to its lair, the Plutonium Boss reveals to the trio the Psychlotron machine, which will speed up both the feeding process and the destruction of Earth at a much faster rate.
    • Ninja Gaiden: Jacquio, real name Guardia de Mieux, is a demonic being who seeks to use the light and dark statues to awaken a powerful demon, harness its energy, and gain world domination with his demon army. Kidnapping Ken Hayabusa and making him his mind controlled fighter after he and Dr. Wimpleton steal the statues, Jacquio sends thieves out to regain the statues, uncaring of the casualties. With Ryu inside his personal temple, Jacquio promises to kill CIA agent Irene should he not get his dark statue back, forcing Ryu to fight his monsters after he complies. Seething with glee over forcing Ryu to fight his mutated, mind controlled father, once he finds them reconciling, Jacquio attempts to kill them both and continue his world domination plan.
    • Bionic Commando: Generalissimo Kilt is the leader of terrorist organization BADD who steals the plans for the Albatross, a deadly weapon which he’ll use to destroy the world and rule over the remains. Kidnapping Super Joe and damaging Jack Markson’s arm enough to have it amputated, Kilt plans to give Joe a slow, painful death. Once the Albatross is completed, Kilt and scientist Master Destructo decide to have it destroy North America as a way to test its power. After the Albatross perishes, Kilt leaves his men behind to escape with Destructo, but despite dying at the hands of Jack, Kilt posthumously reveals to have programmed his lair to self-destruct should he perish, gleefully preparing to take his own men with him to the grave.

It's Spooky Month!
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#225034: Aug 13th 2020 at 5:05:25 PM

[tup] Cronak.

No, Kenny is not even in the same galaxy of this trope. Not even a blip on the radar. The closest we got to a CM in Let the Right One In or Let Me In would be the vampire who turns Ellie, and even then the heinous standard is jacked as all hell due to the murders commited by and for Ellie/Abby.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Sebeck1468 Since: Jul, 2019
#225035: Aug 13th 2020 at 5:05:43 PM

Doesnt Kennys actions go beyond simple school yard bullying?

He whips owen bloody with a metal antenna.

He threatens to rape him with a metal pole before throwing him into a frozen lake.

In the final pool scene, he and his friends planned to either drown or mutilate Owen and considering how they were holding Owens head down hard underwater for over a minute before abby intervened it seemed he was completely serious about killing him.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#225036: Aug 13th 2020 at 5:05:53 PM

[tup]Conrack Brandy

Yeah, if we wen't the extra mile and was an active threat rather than a petty thug, than we would at the very least consider him.

Edited by nwotyzal on Aug 13th 2020 at 5:34:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#225037: Aug 13th 2020 at 5:06:47 PM

No, he doesn't count. He's a nasty bully who threatens to rape his victims and tries to murder him. that's it. This trope is for people who punch outside typical villainy.

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#225038: Aug 13th 2020 at 5:22:34 PM

Theres a huge difference between "more than just a schoolyard bully" and a Complete Monster. He's just a petty thug.

Edited by WaryHoglet on Aug 13th 2020 at 5:24:12 AM

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Sebeck1468 Since: Jul, 2019
#225044: Aug 13th 2020 at 5:59:19 PM

@Lightysnake Do you think Abby herself could count as a complete monster?

She kills loads of innocent people and if you go with the darkest interpretation of Let Me In that she was just grooming Owen as a replacement for Thomas since he was getting too old to be of use to her, then she suddenly comes across as far more evil. Essentially preying on and manipulating an abused, neglected,deeply lonely boy so she can have another slave to procure blood for her.

Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#225045: Aug 13th 2020 at 6:00:18 PM

No. Abby doesn't count. Freudian Excuse aside, she's still portrayed as just sympathetic enough. Even then "going with the darkest interpretation" is exactly that: an interpretation. Not spelled out enough. Also, damn, someone beat me to the OVER 9000 joke. Ironic since I just got that achievement in Madness: Project Nexus, but I digress.

Apologies for those who might have seen my most recent attempt at an effortpost. Didn't quite realize just HOW grimdark it was at first. But yeah, that's not gonna happen again. That being said, I think I have a pretty solid keeper with this character.

What's the work?

We Summon the Dark is a movie set in Indiana in 1988, at the peak of the Satanic Panic. Backlit by a string of cult murders, three girls attend a heavy metal concert, Soldiers of Satan (no, that's not on the nose in the least), where they meet a trio of boys and take them back to a mansion. Things take a dark and Shocking Swerve from there, a la Better Watch Out.

Who is John Henry Butler? What has he done?

Pastor John Henry Butler — played by Johnny Knoxville of all people — is the founder of the Daughters of the Dawn, a Christian group that takes in young women from broken homes and lives and gives them hope and a purpose. He's also a televangelist waging a crusade against heavy metal, but he goes above and beyond what most fundamentalists would do. In fact, he may be even worse than the lot of them.

See, Butler's congregation? His idea of giving them a purpose is brainwashing them, making three of them at a time every so often go to metal concerts to take some horny metalheads in, and setting up their murder to look like they were killed as part of a Satanic ritual. By the start of the movie, his congregation has killed 18 victims. He also brainwashed his own daughter, Alexis, and made her into a pretty effective killer from the looks of things. He also has a whole scam charity, where the donations given to his cause are supposedly given to homeless youth shelters, but in reality, he uses the money to buy big houses where the congregation's murders can be staged.

Towards the end, he comes to his main house, where he is met by one of Alexis' attempted victims. Once the victim looks at his face, he recognizes him, and Butler shoots him, saying, "I'm the wrath of God." Later on, the same guy dies. He then goes inside and looks in the room where the "ritual" was staged, finding another victim's body plus his ex-wife's, to which he coldly dismisses as "Good riddance." Then he looks at the body of the murdered sheriff, annoyed, and drinks a beer before going upstairs to "save" Alexis from one of the three targets, shooting him in the back (he survives) before cornering Alexis, lecturing her for risking exposure of his whole operation and trying to strangle her so she'd "die a martyr". Then Token Good Teammate Beverly steps in, smacking him on the back of the head with a weed wacker, leading to one final tussle between her and Alexis which results in her throwing the latter out the window. And later Alexis is shown to still be alive, but Beverly runs her over. The ending shows that Butler is still alive, and pinned the massacre on Alexis complete with Crocodile Tears, using her death to further his sham cause.

Mitigating factors?

The movie really goes out of its way to show that he has absolutely none. He's glad that his ex (Alexis' stepmom) is dead, is only angry over the excess massacre because it was in his house, which could have meant that his cause would be ruined; he's much more Knight Templar than Well-Intentioned Extremist, since his targets of choice are just metalheads who just happen to be hedonistic and defiant of Christian fundamentalism and are otherwise not shown to be bad people at all; and he literally only cares about his deranged mission instead of doing some "decent" Christian things, since Daughters of the Dawn is just a front for brainwashing and murder.

Heinous standard?

While watching the movie, I was tempted to write up Alexis and Valerie just for how Ax-Crazy they were, but it's emphasized throughout that they're victims of brainwashing. So yeah, he's the bigger villain. No contest.

Verdict?

That's hardly even a question anymore.

Edited by Stellarvore on Aug 13th 2020 at 10:05:43 AM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#225046: Aug 13th 2020 at 6:11:59 PM

[tup] Butler.

[up][up] Funny, I almost mistaken those versions of Abby and Owen for their Last of Us Part 2 versions and was about to outright state that Abby doesn't even come close to counting, but I quickly realize that it wasn't the same Abby and Owen. Nevertheless, it doesn't sound like that she counts either.

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Aug 13th 2020 at 6:12:25 AM

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#225047: Aug 13th 2020 at 6:12:25 PM

[tup] Butler.

[up][up]And once again, no one in either Let Me In or Let the Right One In counts.

[up] I to realized the unfortunate naming when the game first came out. Want something extra ironic ? Abby's book counterparts name is "Ellie".

Edited by Beast on Aug 13th 2020 at 6:15:45 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#225049: Aug 13th 2020 at 6:14:40 PM

[up] Just so you know, we usually use the thumbs up here to indicate an upvote.

[up][up] Didn't Lighty talk about proposing Eli's sire once, though? What happened to that?

Edited by Stellarvore on Aug 13th 2020 at 8:15:22 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#225050: Aug 13th 2020 at 6:15:01 PM

[tup] To Butler

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA

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