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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#224451: Aug 8th 2020 at 8:54:55 AM

[tup] Wheeler and Jaquio.

Hard [tdown] to Doofus Jerry.

It's Spooky Month!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#224452: Aug 8th 2020 at 8:58:05 AM

Don't think I voted on that one.

[tdown]Jerry

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#224453: Aug 8th 2020 at 9:20:09 AM

Yeah alright, drop Jerry. I honestly wasn't sure if he was a CM or not. Just popping him here to see if he had any chance at all.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#224454: Aug 8th 2020 at 9:51:07 AM

There's nothing wrong with giving an EP to a character you're not entirely confident in. Just make sure to give all pertinent information and try your best to keep your fingers off the scales.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#224455: Aug 8th 2020 at 10:09:32 AM

[tup]Wheeler and Jaquio

[tdown]Jerry ([up][up]You didn't do anything wrong, everyone on this thread has at least one EP that doesn't make it)

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#224456: Aug 8th 2020 at 11:36:37 AM

I've got another candidate from Terminator comics

What is the Work?

I talked about Terminator comics from couple of companies and many companies released their own stories set within a franchise, now i talk about the company that released the most amount of material for this franchise, its Dark Horse Comics. Not all of their comics are set within a single contunity, while some connected (like four miniseries that formed an arc and shared characters (Tempest, Secondary Objectives, The Enemy Within and Endgame) and two miniseries that were directly connected to each other (Death Valley and The Dark Years)) others are either completely not connected or very confusing on if they are in contunity with each other. Now, i want to talk about a 3 issue miniseries called The Terminator: Hunters and Killers, which detailes a war between the humans and machines in the Eastern part of the world.

My candidate is the Skynet's partner, who assist it in genocide of humanity, but has grander plans - MIR.

Who is MIR?

As comic reveals, Skynet was not alone in its quest of terminating human life. As soon as Skynet launches the US nukes across the world toward the East, MIR (the defense system, created by the Soviets from Cyberdyne Systems technology) retaliated by by sending hudnreds of its own nuclear warheads toward the US, as Skynet has expected, assisting it in annihilating billions. Skynet then infiltrated the MIR's system and give it setience, offering it a chance to join it in its effort to completely eradicate humanity, which MIR eagerly accepted. Although Skynet suspected treachery and put a lot of limitations on MIR, like the distance of its communications and taking away its memory of code, that will allow it to control nukes, making MIR angry at that and leading to it starting to develop a scheme to overthrow Skynet and take over the machines. Meanwhile it purged the humans within its boarders (East), using its new Stealth Terminators to infiltrating the Resistance and various human groups and kill most of them, before sending the rest to the camp to be experimented on or worked to death, killing most of the population of the East this way.

As MIR's Terminators invade their latest human base, they are thwarted by Spetsnaz. MIR then is confronted by Skynet, who demands to know why its progress on developing TS-300 (newest Stealth units) are so slow and threatens to take away MIR's sentience if it will fail to produce the needed amount, leading MIR to "speed up" its plan and send its Alpha Unit, which looked like the leader of the Spetsnaz Pavlichenko, after Spetsnaz, who escorted Anatoly Golitsyn, who had the codes to the Nukes of the hidden submarine, which MIR planned to use against Skynet and the rebels. The Unit is sent alongside Skynet's Terminators to assist them (Skynet also wanted to get its hands on the Nukes), as they also watch over its progress. Together they slaughter countless rebels and follow the main group, hoping to reach the submarine following them.

The heroes meet the Resistance group from the West, who told them that they want to use EMP with dozens of Nukes to destroy MIR at the same time as John Connor will destroy Skynet (as he was already at his final attack on its base), because otherwise, as soon as Skynet will be destroyed, MIR will "spread" itself across the world and take over the campaign of total human genocide. Immediatly as the heroes left that base, Alpha Unit led Skynet's terminators there and massacred everyone inside it. Taking the information it needs about the location of the submarine, without Skynet knowing, as MIR commands it, Aplha Unit lied to Skynet's Terminators, who manage to eventually locate the location of the submarine anyway and Alpha Unit assist them futher.

As it and Skynet's Terminators finally break into the submarine, Alpha is immideatly ordered to turn on them and destroy them, announcing its intention on freeing itself of Skynet by desytroying it and then planning to carry on the genocide. As MIR sends Alpha to terminate every human there except of Golitsyn, and get the codes from him, Apha encounters the real Pavlichenko and they battle, which reveals that Pavlichenko is also a Terminator spy (a Beta Unit), on whom MIR lost control over sometime ago, but the damage he has taken allowed MIR to control it once again. It was ordered by MIR then to kill Bandera, who was also its lover, but Beta Unit hesitates and Golitsyn shoots it and saves Bandera so that they can lure it into the sub's fast-breeder liquid sodium reactor core and destroys it by pouring it with a rupture of the +2000 degree liquid sodium, while he himself dies of radiation. As MIR's scheme is foiled, it is assumed that it was destroyed by the Resistance immediatly afterwards, as the comic ends.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

None. MIR is completely self-aware and sentient, Skynet's limitation that it put on it is purely on its capabilities of reaching outside the East.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Assited Skynet with the termination of the human race and destruction of most of the world, run his own genocide campaign in the Eastern Boarder, killing humans and experimenting on them or working them to death in its camps, also wanted to betray Skynet so that he could take over its systems and carry on the human genocide itself to completion. Also, need to take into account that it became completely sentient and capable of acting after "Judgement Day" and Skynet's restrictions limited its ability to act in its full power, something it wanted to change.

Final Verdict?

What do you think?

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Aug 8th 2020 at 9:38:51 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#224457: Aug 8th 2020 at 11:40:29 AM

How many more Terminator examples are there?

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#224459: Aug 8th 2020 at 11:43:49 AM

Of the same character, no less?

Like sure to MIR, but the inundation of constant examples of the same character from the same franchise can be a bit much at times.

Edited by Lightysnake on Aug 8th 2020 at 11:48:43 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#224460: Aug 8th 2020 at 11:43:51 AM

[tup]Mir ([lol])

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#224462: Aug 8th 2020 at 11:46:19 AM

[up][up] Funny. I was going to make a joke about it being a the shortened version of your username.

Edited by Bullman on Aug 8th 2020 at 1:47:02 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#224463: Aug 8th 2020 at 11:47:17 AM

[tup] to Dr. David Wheeler, Jaquio and MIR.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#224464: Aug 8th 2020 at 11:49:58 AM

There is one more candidate from Terminator comics that i'm sure of, and there is a duo, for which i'm less sure of, but still give them a try.

Of the same character, no less?

Like sure to MIR, but the inundation of constant examples of the same character from the same franchise can be a bit much at times.

To be fair, i read all Terminator comics, and not everywhere Skynet counts, in comic sequel to Salvation it got some redeeming qualities, in crossover with Transformers it is apparently a good guy and in at least half of the comics it never actually appears, thus not showing any personality to count.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Aug 8th 2020 at 9:54:28 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#224465: Aug 8th 2020 at 11:57:12 AM

Being fair the transformers crossover is still ongoing. Megatron the actual Big Bad of it might count instead

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#224467: Aug 8th 2020 at 11:59:48 AM

[tup] to the MIR space station

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Aug 8th 2020 at 12:01:39 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#224468: Aug 8th 2020 at 12:13:56 PM

Also guess were getting a terminater page then. Quotes/images anyone? Preferably from skynet.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#224469: Aug 8th 2020 at 12:17:02 PM

Don't we have a T-800 quote about Skynet on Complete Monster that could work?

Edited by Bullman on Aug 8th 2020 at 2:18:15 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#224470: Aug 8th 2020 at 12:21:36 PM

[tup] GIR.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#224471: Aug 8th 2020 at 12:40:27 PM

[up][up][up]I'm not sure a Terminator page is entirely necessary

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#224473: Aug 8th 2020 at 12:42:37 PM

[up][up]This is the sixth example for comics alone (2 or uh 3 for films). Vile already said he had three more for comics. That would create way too long a comic tree.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#224474: Aug 8th 2020 at 12:44:31 PM

[up][up][up] It has more than enough entries. Plus apparently at least one more coming. And we have Halloween which mostly one character.

Also the quote I mentioned from Complete Monster.

T-800: In three years, Cyberdyne will become the largest supplier of military computer systems. All stealth bombers are upgraded with Cyberdyne computers, becoming fully unmanned. Afterwards, they fly with a perfect operational record. The Skynet Funding Bill is passed. The system goes online August 4th, 1997. Human decisions are removed from strategic defense. Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. In a panic, they try to pull the plug.

Sarah Connor: Skynet fights back.

T-800: Yes. It launches its missiles against the targets in Russia.

John Connor: Why attack Russia? Aren't they our friends now?

T-800: Because Skynet knows that the Russian counterattack will eliminate its enemies over here.

The only problem is from T2.

Edited by Bullman on Aug 8th 2020 at 2:47:11 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#224475: Aug 8th 2020 at 12:46:03 PM

[up][up]Actually two. I'm not sure if it is necessary to make each EP for the member of the duo of baddies, considering their only notable attempted crime is the same.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Aug 8th 2020 at 10:47:37 PM


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