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Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

    Effortpost template 
What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by nombretomado on Mar 31st 2020 at 8:15:08 AM

DelphineTheDelphox Ultra Instinct Mario from The Alola Region Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Ultra Instinct Mario
Beast I want to be, where the people are... from Ontario, Canada Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
I want to be, where the people are...
Aug 1st 2020 at 5:34:31 AM

I'd suggest reading the rest of the trilogy.

Also a yes to Albert and Hawkins.

"Good day to you, human. Names Crhulhu, you probably head of me. I was recently bested by Bella Swan."
DelphineTheDelphox Ultra Instinct Mario from The Alola Region Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Ultra Instinct Mario
SatoshiBakura    Remember freedom?    from    The Shadow Realm    Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
   Remember freedom?   
Aug 1st 2020 at 6:17:25 AM

I will offer my two cents on Dark Bakura.

The thing with that scene is that it’s unique because Dark Bakura’s life is ALSO on the line, which complicates things. I know it can come across as Dark Bakura caring for his host, but looking at the circumstances and context of the scene, it still feels too much like Pragmatic Villainy in my opinion. To look over that scene:

  • Marik gave no warning that he would enact this.
  • Dark Bakura actually had to think it over before deciding to react.
  • In the manga, Marik was screwing around with Ryo’s mind around the same time, and Dark Bakura had no problem with this.
  • Again, Dark Bakura would have been killed as well.
  • There was an uncertainty on Bakura and Marik’s end on whether or not Yugi would have went for the attack anyway.

It’s pretty clear to me that Dark Bakura is reacting because of the possibility of being killed with his host.

In contrast, there is another scene earlier in the manga where Ryo is putting his life on the line, and Dark Bakura shows no actual concern for him, even when he appears to be dead.

   Don't want to be an American idiot...   
Panzerkampf Ender of Worlds from Boiler Room of Hell
Ender of Worlds
Aug 1st 2020 at 6:53:26 AM

What is the Work The Butcher Bird, a One Piece fanfic. Primarily a Tokyo Ghoul/One Piece fusion, focus is on a cast of OCs rather than the majority of canon characters and events.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

Eustass Kid, Captain of the Kid Pirates Kid started off as a particularly brutal pirate who was notably for his excessive cruelty to civilian populations and to other pirates, as in canon. He picks a fight with one of the main characters, and after winning proceeds to mutilate the man, blinding him with the intention of doing far worse and only being stopped by a last-minute rescue. He pops up again later, planning for a rematch upon hearing the main character he'd blinded had functional eyesight. He loses badly in the ensuing fight due to said character having prepared a counter for his abilities, but later goes on offscreen to destroy the town the fight was in, with unstated consequences for the civilian and military populations within the town. When he reenters the story, it's after having maimed two dozen other pirate captains, specifically attempting to destroy what each specialized in (for instance, a preacher had his vocal cords cut, and a builder had his hand bones reduced to powder). Upon capturing a crew allied to the main characters, he tortures said crew, sending the main characters a Finger in the Mail to let them know where he left their crucified bodies. This prompts the main characters into a pursuit. They find a town where Kid has massacred the entire male population (the women and children having fled to caverns beneath the town). Kid uses his Magnetism Manipulation powers to puppet the armored corpses of said male population as a zombie army in an attempt to take revenge on the main characters. When cornered, he threatens some of the town's children he's caught with death by impalement.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Kid's brutality could initially be explained as an extremely short temper coupled with a propensity to violence. He shows some basic attachment to his 2IC, Killer, backing down from maiming the main character mentioned above largely due to threats made against Killer's life. In The Butcher Bird, the specific nature of his actions might be due to a psychotic break after his defeat, but this is not stated. No particular reason for his propensity to violence and torture is given.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Veteran pirate captains with a history of violence find him revolting, and it's stated that if he'd survived his final battle the actions he took there would have earned him a higher bounty than what a canon character earned for attacking and destroying the central courthouse of the entire world government. Since bounties are used as a measurement of how threatening an individual is to said world government...yeah.

Final Verdict?

I'd argue yes.

Edited by Panzerkampf on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:53:40 AM

therealjackieboy Oh Yeah! from Austin, TX Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Aug 1st 2020 at 7:15:05 AM

[tup] Gary Busey and keep Cole

Cut Rutger Hauer’s character.

Macho Man droppin' fat beats in the clouds above.
Aug 1st 2020 at 7:41:50 AM


Keep Cole

I’d argue to keeping Bakura, since his “attachment” seems more like he needs the body to be kept alive rather than genuine feelings for him

Abstain on the Kid since the fact that he stands down when the main character threatens Killer seems a bit to genuine


Edited by nwotyzal on Aug 1st 2020 at 7:47:10 AM

Aug 1st 2020 at 7:44:43 AM

Yes to Fish and Hawkings.

Cut Rutger Hauer’s character.

I will abstain on Bakura, and Kidd at the moment.

  • Ninja Gaiden III: The Ancient Ship of Doom: H.P Clancy is an assistant to CIA agent A. Foster and the hidden true villain of the game. After Ryu Hayabusa slew the evil wizard Jaquio and a demon he summoned, the demon's destruction created a portal to another dimension that is releasing energy. Foster takes over what is left of Jaquio's fortress in the Amazon and renames it Castle Rock Fortress. Clancy and Foster begin to use the other-dimensional energy to perform experiments, setting up a lab to create nightmarish creatures called Bio-Noids. When Ryu's girlfriend, CIA agent Irene Lew was investigating the lab, Clancy has Bio-Noid that looks like Ryu seemingly kills Irene and then frames Ryu for her murder. After Ryu investigates the lab, Clancy approaches him and appears friendly, directing him to go to the Castle Rock Fortress, saying he cannot condone Foster's experiments. When Ryu confronts Foster, Clancy reveals his true intentions, he will go into the dimensional portal and claim the energy for himself. Later when Ryu confronts Clancy in the portal, he reveals his master plan, Clancy will use an ancient alien warship to destroy humanity and replace them with Bio-Noid creatures.

Edited by Overlord on Aug 1st 2020 at 7:55:39 AM

Aug 1st 2020 at 8:03:04 AM

Bakura's line is hypocritical. He's put his other half in danger more than once. That is just one off line he said in his head that contradicts what he said out loud.

I mean Slade made a similar line when he fought Trigon ("Trigon broke his deal. What Trigon did. I wouldn't wish that on the world").

Michealthehero21 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Aug 1st 2020 at 8:04:26 AM

Yeah, I’m not seeing any actual care here myself. Keep Yami Bakura.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.)
Aug 1st 2020 at 8:05:05 AM

Hypocritical doesn't necessarily mean CM though.

CM Drafts; Pending CM Writeups
Aug 1st 2020 at 8:10:16 AM

Can anyone answer what I asked here

nrjxll Relationship Status: Not war
Aug 1st 2020 at 8:14:13 AM

[up]I'm with 43110. The "incarnations per character" list is a meaningless, informal/JFF thing. Strict continuity for it doesn't really matter.

Edited by nrjxll on Aug 1st 2020 at 10:15:49 AM

Aug 1st 2020 at 8:28:45 AM

[tup] to keeping Yami Bakura. It’s the same as Denby’s hesitation killing Harriet not counting because she’s still gonna brainwash her and/or get her killed anyway. He’s gonna go right back to using Bakura as his host without any real emotional attachment AT ALL.

Based on the EP, [tup] to Fish.

My 29th birthday today everyone.

Awesomekid42 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
Aug 1st 2020 at 8:31:54 AM

I'm for keeping Yami Bakura. He explicitly says to Marik that the reason he's switching back is because he still needs Bakura. And that was because the idea was brought up that Yugi would attack anyway. He didn't want to risk his host being killed because it would be detrimental to his own goals. Not for any moral reason like why Atem protects Yugi.

And no to fanfic Eustass. Seems like he cares about Killer.

[up] Happy birthday!

Edited by Awesomekid42 on Aug 1st 2020 at 12:01:35 PM

Aug 1st 2020 at 8:33:16 AM

Leaning no to Kid given the potential redeeming quality.

[up][up]Happy birthday!

Bullman Relationship Status: Abstaining
Aug 1st 2020 at 8:37:00 AM

Happy birthday future.

Hello I'm not going to be here long today. It's I'm up before my mom and figured I would take a look at the thread.

I'm just to say keep the Yu-Gi-Oh guy. Not because I think he is hypocritical, which he is, but because always interpreted that sceen as him trying to save his own ass and not the host. Especially where this is a similar scene where Ryo seems to die and he doesn't react. So I believe it's Pragmatic Villainy.

Edited by Bullman on Aug 1st 2020 at 10:39:11 AM

Libraryseraph Take my revolution! from Canada Relationship Status: Longing for Dulcinea
Take my revolution!
Aug 1st 2020 at 8:45:18 AM

Abstain on Yami Bakura, everyone makes good points and I'm not familiar enough w the series to have my own opinion

[tdown] to Kidd

[tup] To Fish

Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination
43110 You should start singing for yourself now. from Mars Relationship Status: Abstaining
You should start singing for yourself now.
Aug 1st 2020 at 8:46:42 AM

I'm not down to cut Yami Bakura... it's a one-off scene that doesn't actually step out of the line of Pragmatic Villainy. He happily allows Bakura to suffer abuse and as I recall his endgame is to see Zorc Omnicidal Maniac shit up. Not seeing it.

I will however say cut to Rutgar's character as per Scraggle's suggestion, but keep his Dragon and welcome the addition of Gary Busey's guy.

Pending MB writeups MB Drafts MB Dates
Bullman Relationship Status: Abstaining
Aug 1st 2020 at 8:51:22 AM

[up]Who's Rutgar's character? I must have missed Scraggles points about him.

Edited by Bullman on Aug 1st 2020 at 10:54:32 AM

Aug 1st 2020 at 9:02:22 AM

It’s also been shown that having a potential EEHS isn’t disqualifying when it doesn’t offset the horridness of the character’s villainy. While Snow has been cut now at this point, it wasn’t because of his aversion to lying, it was eventually because he was shown to have people he cared about. Heck Crispian Davison is an example of a CM who has an aversion to violence and yet still counts because arranged to have others killed for money (specifically his own family).

Again with Yami Bakura, it doesn’t truly show any actual genuine care toward Bakura if you ask me.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Aug 1st 2020 at 10:15:43 AM

43110 You should start singing for yourself now. from Mars Relationship Status: Abstaining
You should start singing for yourself now.
Bullman Relationship Status: Abstaining
Aug 1st 2020 at 9:11:51 AM

[up] Okay. I say cut him. That's a pretty open and shut case.

Edited by Bullman on Aug 1st 2020 at 11:12:15 AM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.)
Aug 1st 2020 at 9:19:00 AM

I'm gonna reformat the Gaiden tree slightly:

  • Ninja Gaiden franchise:
    • (Clancy)
    • Team Ninja series:
      • Ninja Gaiden Black: Murai stands out as a truly horrible individual. Once part of the Hayabusa Clan, Murai defected from the group and plotted their demise. Being a neutral ally of the Hayabusas, Murai used his position and knowledge to sell them out to Emperor Vigoor under the guise of the Dark Disciple while luring away his nephew, Ryu Hayabusa, during the scheduled invasion. With the Hayabusa Clan decimated and their ancient artifact, the Dragon Blade, in the hands a vengeful Ryu, Murai sends him out to hunt after Vigoor to get revenge. This is actualy so Ryu would increase the power of the the Dragon Blade through the blood of Emperor Vigoor's forces. He and his servant Gamov then kept watch and helped increase the number of demons so it would fuel the Dragon Blade, despite the collateral damage it would leave. After Emperor Vigoor is killed by Ryu as Murai expected, Murai reveals himself as the true villain and steals the sword away from Ryu, and backstabs his loyal servant Gamov. He then tries to kill off Ryu and intends to take control of the world with the sword. Manipulative and traitorous, Murai would betray and slaughter anyone for power.
      • Ninja Gaiden 3: Clifford "Cliff" Higgins at first seems like a helpful scientist working for the Japanese Defense Force. However, Cliff is really working for the Lords of Alchemy, a group that wants to destroy the human race and replace it with new "perfect" god-like beings; he is also the grandson of the head of the LOA. When Cliff's brother Theodore opposed Cliff's plans, Cliff had him killed in an accident. Cliff later decides to bring his brother back to life, brainwashes him and turns him into a terrorist. While under Cliff's control, Theodore launches a terrorist attack on London and murders the British Prime Minister. Cliff's plans come to a head when he uses his technology and Ryu Hayabusa's Dragon Sword, to turn Canna, his own niece, into an Eldritch Abomination called the Goddess. The Goddess then proceeds to go on a rampage across Tokyo, and will eventually destroy the entire human race. Later, after a fight with Ryu and a fatal injury at the hands of his brother, Cliff admits he did all this because he was jealous of his brother and wanted to step out from under his shadow, any way he could.
      • Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z spinoff: Alarico del Gonzo is the holographic head of Forge Industries, and the one responsible for the zombie outbreak. Discovering an underground space lobster, he decided to harvest the chemical Substance 72 from it in order to cure his disease and become a God-like figure, unleashing the chemical onto Soviet soil once he hears of Ryu Hayabusa coming to stop him. Doing so causes everyone in Russia to become a zombie, with del Gonzo using them to distract Ryu. Resurrecting Yaiba Kamikaze as a cyborg, he has him hunt down Ryu so that he can activate Yaiba's killswitch to detonate the two ninjas, killing some of his men in a fit of rage once that fails.

CM Drafts; Pending CM Writeups
Aug 1st 2020 at 9:25:55 AM

Agreed with the cut/add suggestion from Scraggle there. I'm gonna say cut both Cole an Burns myself, rewatching. The two are genuinely chummy and the intent was to convey a true friendship. But Hawkins can keep. Welcome to the Gary Busey CM club.

Now, I did look at the Yugioh chapter (Viz's reader has it)...I think this is less moral standards and more his pride. He's incensed at the idea he ha to hide behind a weak boy...the second, third and fourth issues? Secondly, Yami Bakura has shown himself willing to utilize Bakura as a shield himself, or injure him should he feel it's in his plans (in his first arc he impales Bakura's hand while cackling)

Third issue is...he has a scheme going and fakes his death whole remaining in Bakura's consciousness and fourth in the next chapter, as Yugi is bearing down on him, Yami Bakura internally laughs "I'll let you have this duel! The power of darkness is mine in the end! This boy's weak soul, this fragile body...they exist only for that day!"

No to Kidd for redeeming quality and stop ignoring the EP it's not that long please read it and vote, guys.

Edited by Lightysnake on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:29:03 AM

Total posts: 224,892

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