During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I am enlightened. Although if it was ultimately agreed that he didn't qualify what was a comparison made to him in support of inclusion as a CM for Junko when A New Man raised him?
There's also the fact that Gaston did less heinous things compared to Frollo. At least Gaston didn't try to have a huge portion of the city burned down to find Belle. There's also the fact that the other villainous things he did was throwing Belle's father into prison and attempting to kill the Beast. These two villainous actions don't qualify him as a CM because one: the former shows that he's a Jerkass and nothing more, and two: killing the hero isn't an automatic qualifier for a CM. It's as natural for a villain to try to kill the hero as easy as it is to breathe.
I think the interesting thing about Gaston is that he starts as a braggart, but gets steadily worse and worse through the film. He displays genuine cruelty in his fight with the Beast and his attempt at knifing him after the Beast spared his life was pretty low.
But he still falls well short here. He honestly comes off as full of himself enough to believe Belle wants him and doesn't get it yet, whereas Frollo doesn't quite care about Esmeralda's consent and is more concerned with the effect on himself. He's also infanticidal and genocidal.
But again, I saw Gaston stabbing the Beast in the back as a Too Dumb to Live example considering that he fell off the palace roof to his death (no one dies like Gaston).
edited 25th Feb '14 6:37:06 AM by AustinDR
For Complete Monster Film, the entry for Jack Nicholson's Joker has a part that makes no sense. It says "From that to present day."
@Shaoken
I'm going to agree with you to cut her. It sounds like her moral agency is in serious question.
Kefka's the main villain of FFVI. He's a Laughing Mad Straw Nihilist Monster Clown; think some versions of the Joker with godlike powers and you're pretty close. In any case, he's insane only in the sense of being psychopathic, and it isn't played for sympathy at all.
I don't doubt Kefka's qualifications for heinousness, but there was some debate over whether he had moral agency, having been driven insane by the attempt to infuse him with Magicite, if I remember correctly.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"I concur with Shaoken and Ambar in thinking that she flunks the moral agency. Not to mention that, as the effortpost suggests, it seems that Junko is more of a Generic Doomsday Villain who lacks characterization of any sort. I'm going to give her and Monokuma a
.
And really, the current example for Junko and Monokuma quoted in the effortpost is pathetic. It tells me almost nothing of Monokuma's crimes and qualifications, not to mention that it is way too informal and takes an overly excited approach to Junko's crimes. Not that they qualify in my book anyway, but still it's not exactly what we want for CM entries, is it?
edited 25th Feb '14 8:22:43 AM by sanfranman91
I promised you revised entries for KR for a while now and I'm finally delivering them to you. First up is Isaka, aka Peacock Undead from Kamen Rider Blade
- Isaka, aka the Peacock Undead, exemplifies how low manipulative bastards can go. As the first Category Jack Undead, he designed Rider System 3, a belt that allows the user to transform into Kamen Rider Leangle. Unfortunately, that same belt requires using an improperly sealed Ace card that contains the Spider Undead, meaning that its user would be mentally enslaved by the Undead (as later seen with Mutsuki). After designing the corrupted Rider System, he brainwashed many people that he was going to use as expendable slaves to create his "Ultimate Rider". When this plan failed, Isaka turns his attention to Sakuya Tachibana (Kamen Rider Garren) and attempts to retrieve him as a prototype user. Isaka knows about Tachibana's subconscious fear and takes advantage of it to curbstomp him. Isaka tricks his defeated opponent to getting addicted to Schuld Ketsner seaweed, lying that the aggression-inducing plant would eliminate fear. When Sayoko notices her lover's addiction, Isaka smugly kills her for attempting to clean up her lover. Upon learning about Sayoko's death, Tachibana loses his subconscious fear and eventually gives the bastard exactly what he deserves.
edited 25th Feb '14 9:30:43 AM by sanfranman91
What do you guys think of The Immortal Game MLP fanfiction YMMV I've found?
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That's already listed on the My Little Pony Fan Works page, and it looks like Terra doesn't count anyway. I guess just copy/paste it to the YMMV for now.
Hey, someone added God and Satan as Complete Monsters to the YMMV page of Spawn:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/Spawn
I don't think they were approved here, they are not on the main comic book page. Should they be cut?
edited 25th Feb '14 1:26:00 PM by TheOverlord
Spawn's God and Satan are definitely both jerks, but I would not call them CM. They're more like... Sid Phillips on a planet-wide scale in that they don't seem to realize they're hurting anyone; this planet is theirs, so why not "play" with everything on it, right?
