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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#222902: Jul 27th 2020 at 2:40:40 PM

Yes to Carver, Tomas, Krauss, Garth, Cicero, Zaxor and honestly?

Yes to Cyborg as well.

I mean, we get to see his crimes, with a body count, and his redeeming qualities are absent.

We've dealt with Adaptational Villainy god-knows how many times and it does seems to be enough despite the fact that, well, there's little plot.

I'm not seeing anything really mitigating there. It may be an attempt to pull off a faithful adaptation, but fact is, his redeeming qualities are are absent there.

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Jul 27th 2020 at 11:43:46 AM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#222903: Jul 27th 2020 at 2:43:23 PM

[up] Usually Adaptational Villainy clearly establishes that those redeeming features are missing, as opposed to pieces of the story not being included due to medium/narrative limitations

Edited by Libraryseraph on Jul 27th 2020 at 5:45:23 AM

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#222904: Jul 27th 2020 at 2:45:54 PM

[up][up]I think the issue is that most of his actions are Offscreen Villainy

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#222905: Jul 27th 2020 at 2:46:37 PM

And that he has very little to no character since its an SNES beat um up game.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#222906: Jul 27th 2020 at 2:56:57 PM

[tup] Carver, Tomas, Krauss, Garth, Cicero and Zaxor

[tdown] Cyborg

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#222907: Jul 27th 2020 at 2:59:54 PM

[tup] Cicero and Zaxor.

Just watched a 2016 thriller called The Hollow. Nobody who is sufficiently heinous appears to keep. The big bad appears to care about his grandson, and the secondary antagonist also cares about his family.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 27th 2020 at 6:03:00 AM

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#222908: Jul 27th 2020 at 2:59:59 PM

@miraculous "The Cyborg broke into the facility and throws the Doomsday's body into space, fearing that he might become a threat in the future.", "The Cyborg then gleefully announces to Superboy his intention of reconstructing the entire planet in his image".

I'm seeing clear motives there.

@nwotyzal "Destroyed the Coast City, killing everyone there with us seeing a lot of bones in levels within that destroyed city"

On the contrary, we do get to see it.

@Libraryseraph Though I don't think the limitations of the medium is enough. I recall several cases retaining their redeeming qualities in spite of it.

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#222909: Jul 27th 2020 at 3:08:33 PM

I mean it sounds like a generic beat em game. I mean is there anything else besides bad guy does bad guy things?

Edited by AustinDR on Jul 27th 2020 at 3:09:08 AM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#222911: Jul 27th 2020 at 3:11:10 PM

@miraculous "The Cyborg broke into the facility and throws the Doomsday's body into space, fearing that he might become a threat in the future.", "The Cyborg then gleefully announces to Superboy his intention of reconstructing the entire planet in his image".

I'm seeing clear motives there.

How ? That just sounds confusing rather then an actual motivation....

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#222912: Jul 27th 2020 at 3:18:51 PM

Georgie I don’t think anyone else is seeing it, not sure how much of a fight this one is worth, there isn’t a precedent for a monster in equivalence of this specific scenario. We had a side scroller version of Red Skull get downvoted for lack of personality and the canon version doesn’t even have any of the issues present here:

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#222913: Jul 27th 2020 at 3:20:47 PM

[up] I don't know about that version of Herr Skull, but it sounds like this guy has enough personality to avoid falling into Generic Doomsday Villain territory, if only just. Still not voting either way yet.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#222914: Jul 27th 2020 at 3:23:21 PM

Not seeing how that... isnt a clear motive but still gonna abstain on The Cyborg for all the other stuff.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#222915: Jul 27th 2020 at 3:25:23 PM

The issue is: it's a bare bones adaptation with a villain who is very, very hard to separate from his redeeming qualities, and a bare bones one with barely any plot.

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#222916: Jul 27th 2020 at 3:45:30 PM

[tup] to Krauss and Garth, Jeffrey Cicero, and Zaxor.

@erazor0707: My condolences. Take all the time you need.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#222917: Jul 27th 2020 at 3:50:27 PM

There an argument to keep him here? This seems to be drawing it out for the sake of it.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#222918: Jul 27th 2020 at 3:57:01 PM

Not really; just Georgie really speaking on the Cyborg.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#222919: Jul 27th 2020 at 3:58:09 PM

Suggestion for a potential Mythology and Religion page quote.

And when Haman saw that Mordecai would neither kneel nor prostrate himself before him, Haman became full of wrath. But it seemed contemptible to him to lay hands on Mordecai alone, for they had told him Mordecai's nationality, and Haman sought to destroy all the Jews who were throughout Ahasuerus's entire kingdom, Mordecai's people.

Book of Esther, 3:5-3:6

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jul 28th 2020 at 9:40:36 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#222920: Jul 27th 2020 at 4:00:45 PM

Maybe.

Edited by AustinDR on Jul 27th 2020 at 4:03:06 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#222921: Jul 27th 2020 at 4:01:52 PM

That quote works.

I remember that side-scroller Skull. My proposal. Luckily I got a different Skull approved.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#222922: Jul 27th 2020 at 4:04:12 PM

Yes to Carver, Tomas, Krauss, Garth, Cicero and Zaxor.

No to Cyborg.

I like the quote for the myths page. Anyone got any good images.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#222923: Jul 27th 2020 at 4:05:27 PM

quotes good, but didn't we already have a quote from Haman on the quotes page?

Also, is there anything we could use for an image (also speaking of which is there a image pickin thread for Fan Works

Edited by nwotyzal on Jul 27th 2020 at 4:06:59 AM

Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#222924: Jul 27th 2020 at 4:06:40 PM

Yes to the quote.

Check out my current fanfiction project.
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015

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