During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I find what makes Claudius a fascinating villain is his being utterly driven by envy. Scar simply wants Simba dead and gone, but for Claudius, his first instinct is to take everything his brother owned. His throne, his country, the love of his people, his wife's love and Hamlet's love as well.
All told, there's no evidence in the play Claudius would be a bad ruler. He's not a particularly sadistic or vicious fellow, especially compared to Richard III or Iago.
When remembering the kingdom going to hell, I can't help but think back to the Cracked article pointing out how ludicrous it was that he effectively altered the entire environment in a few years, then when Simba becomes king everything is instantly undone.
Well, the famine part is easy to understand, given Scar let the Hyenas run rampant and every bit of food was either devoured too quick, or vacated the premises, and came back later when the drought ended and Scar was dead
edited 22nd Feb '14 5:09:03 PM by Lightysnake
Do you mind posting a link to that? I'd like to read it again.
edited 23rd Feb '14 11:31:21 AM by VeryMelon
Well, here is an article pointing out how Scar's reign somehow making the rain stop and all the vast rivers drying up makes no sense, and this one which equates Scar with a four-legged Lenin. Interesting Alternate Character Interpretation even if it's just Played for Laughs.
The second one is about the hyenas, not Scar.
It's less 'Scar makes it happen" and more"Scar forces everyone to die there" for me, really.
Though a Red Scare message is pretty easy to reach, amusingly. At any rate, here's a writeup:
- Scar from The Lion King is defined by his envy and hatred of his elder brother Mufasa. Hating that he isn't king, Scar hatches a scheme to remove Mufasa from the equation as well as Mufasa's young son Simba. When Scar's first attempt to murder Simba and his best friend Nala fails, Scar has his Hyena cohorts cause a stampede and personally throws Mufasa in to be trampled when he escapes it. He then convinces Simba the whole thing was his fault, convincing him to go into self imposed exile before ordering the hyenas to murder Simba anyways. Scar's incompetence as king leads to a famine, and when Simba returns, he sees Scar refuse to allow anyone to leave to go anywhere else, declaring "so be it" when Mufasa's widow Sarabi says he's condemning everyone to death. He proceeds to backhand her when she compares him unfavorably to Mufasa, and when he confronts Simba, Scar tries to break him by bringing up Mufasa's death. He only pauses in his attempt at a public execution to mock Simba that Scar was Mufasa's true murderer.
edited 22nd Feb '14 5:59:58 PM by Lightysnake
Okay I added the writeup to the Disney sandbox. Does the sandbox need any other changes or may I go request to swap it with the actual page?
edited 22nd Feb '14 6:06:09 PM by TVRulezAgain
Can we change the wording for the video game section thing about Master Xehanort? The word "completely" is misspelled, and the use of the word 'somehow' in the sentence "Vanitas is somehow excused since he is completly made of darkness" makes it sound like whoever wrote it is passive-aggressively implying that they don't agree with it. At least to me.
And does Blackbeard's entry need to be spoilered like that?
222222 get.
edited 22nd Feb '14 6:23:44 PM by Camberf
I despoilered Blackbeard and removed the part about Vanitas altogether.
Could you make it:
- Master Xehanort from Kingdom Hearts is truly horrible and despicable. For his actions, look to the Video Game section.
Lizzid people!
Isn't Cracked not supposed to be taken seriously though?
@Camberf Done
@Austin DR We know. Shaoken was just sharing it for the amusement.
edited 22nd Feb '14 6:42:15 PM by TVRulezAgain
Lizzid people!
Oh. I didn't understand the joke. Sorry.
Looks good to me.
It's funny to think this Scar recount was mainly possible because we were talking about a Lion King fanfic.
Lizzid people!
Ironic, isn't it?
@ 22220: Change WesternAnimation.The Lion King with Disney.The Lion King.
Say, while we're on "never again" reconsiderations, it struck me that we've never had a full conversation about Bellatrix Lestrange's relationship with her sister, Narcissa. I ask because this seems to be the closest to thing a normal relationship Bella has, calling each other nicknames and all, but what really struck me is that Bella actually defies Voldemort's orders and tells Narcissa not to go to Snape in Half-Blood Prince, since Voldemort trusts Snape completely and Bella doesn't. It's not much, especially since Bella emotionally abuses Narcissa later in the scene, but I remember being very intrigued by that scene when I first read it; this is the single time in the entire series Bella actually disagrees with Voldemort, and it's when she thinks her sister is walking into a trap.
edited 22nd Feb '14 8:41:06 PM by HamburgerTime
I don't believe for an instant Narcissa is a Morality Pet to Bellatrix, to be honest. She's utterly callous to her grief, mocks her when Narcissa pulls a weapon and never displays anything resembling affection
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I largely agree, but this is literally the only time in all four books she appears in that she ever disagrees with her boss. Call me crazy, but I can't help but think that means something...
I think it just means she just really, really distrusts Snape
Lizzid people!
So, if we all agreed on the movie version of Scar, what about the theatrical version of him?
edited 22nd Feb '14 9:04:25 PM by AustinDR
Musical!Scar is a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
I'm still unsure, but I must admit that letting the kingdom rot rather than admit he's wrong is definitely a special kind of evil. Even his inspiration, Claudius didn't go that far.
edited 22nd Feb '14 4:57:55 PM by HamburgerTime