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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#222176: Jul 21st 2020 at 6:27:21 PM

I blanked them.

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#222177: Jul 21st 2020 at 7:03:43 PM

'Yes' to Katsuhige and the Traitor General, as well as the Dracula quotes.

Seeing as all 3 versions of Strange seem to keep, I figure an image of him might work out... thoughts on if any of these work?

Post-Crisis!Strange holding Robin at gunpoint

Rebirth!Strange following one of his "experiments"

Rebirth!Strange beating a man to death

Or, we can do just the bottom panel of the latter, or we can do an alternative of both Rebirth pics like so.

Edited by Ravok on Jul 21st 2020 at 7:06:50 AM

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#222178: Jul 21st 2020 at 7:07:47 PM

[tup] Katsuhige and Ravok's final image.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#222179: Jul 21st 2020 at 7:14:53 PM

[tup] Traitor General and Katsuhige.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#222180: Jul 21st 2020 at 7:17:27 PM

[up][up][up]I like those images (also I can't help but hear them in Corey Burton's voice)

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#222182: Jul 21st 2020 at 7:53:51 PM

I'm late to this, so yes to Hugo Strange, yes to Hugo Strange, and...who am I missing? Oh, yes—yes to Hugo Strange. Any one of those pictures except the first will do.

Anyway, last Kane candidate! I present the Demonlord, Sathonys.

Who is Sathonys? What has he done?

The Demonlord—also known as Sathonys, Lord Tloluvin, Lato, etc.—is the biggest bad in the Kane universe, and not so much its Satanic Archetype as he is literally Satan himself. The ruler of Hell, Sathonys is hinted to be behind quite a bit of Kane's own evil—he makes constant reference to Kane having "served him well" in the past, more than Kane has gone against him—as well as the plight of the Demonlord's Moon. All across the land, whenever the Demonlord's Moon comes, Sathonys and his black hound Serberys go on hunts, reaping souls to slaughter and demons so he can plunge them into Hell for everlasting torment.

In his debut story, Raven's Eyrie, Sathonys makes a deal with Ionor, the mother of Kane's child, and the series' biggest Anti-Villain who gave birth to a girl named Klesst because Kane raped her. Ionor was lost to hatred and pledged to sacrifice Klesst to Sathonys in exchange for Kane being plunged into Hell. Sathonys, sadistic douche he is, is only too happy to devour the now seven-year-old Klesst, but also remarks that Ionor isn't entirely devoid of love for Klesst and has spent seven years utterly torturing herself to stick to the deal and sacrifice Klesst to him. When Kane kills Ionor, Sathonys remains amused and simply decides to strike again when the time suits him.

In the last chronological Kane story, At First Just Ghostly—which shows Kane has lived to the modern day, and now writes barbarian fantasy, because of course—Sathonys once again acts as the Big Bad, and now cheerfully calls himself by a new name: Satan. Having continued to devour souls over all the time he's lurked on Earth, Sathonys/Satan's biggest goal is nothing less than total Hell on Earth, rising up the forces of Hell to "renovate" the Earth and plunge everyone into unending torture. Kane reunites with Klesst in the current day, ready to take the fight to Sathonys in a war that will define the fate of the Earth...

...too bad Wagner's too dead to finish up that plotline.

Any mitigating factors?

Of all the villains in Kane, Sathonys is the biggest and the baddest, even moreso than Orsted. Large chunks of Villain Protagonist Kane's own evil traces back to Sathonys himself, and no other villain matches him for the sheer scale of his final goal. Now, Kane does suggest Sathonys may be a slave to his own nature in Raven's Eyrie, but more as a taunt than anything else; Sathonys merely remarks "your wit is as bold as your arrogance, Kane" in response. Nothing explicitly says Sathonys lacks any form of moral agency; everything is a game to the Demonlord, and he enjoys sacrificing his pawns.

Conclusion?

Easy keeper.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#222183: Jul 21st 2020 at 7:56:53 PM

[tup] the Devil himself.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#222186: Jul 21st 2020 at 8:04:48 PM

[tup] to the final collage of Hugo Strange and Sathonys/The Demonlord.

Edited by DrUnknown on Jul 21st 2020 at 8:05:59 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#222187: Jul 21st 2020 at 8:07:18 PM

[tup] to Sathonys

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#222188: Jul 21st 2020 at 8:07:43 PM

[tup] Satan

Probably dumb of me to ask, but has anybody continued writing the Kane books after Wagner's death, or did the series die with him?

It's Spooky Month!
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#222189: Jul 21st 2020 at 8:12:56 PM

[tup]Sathonys (Oh Goody, another Satan)

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#222192: Jul 21st 2020 at 9:05:00 PM

[tup] Chicken Katsuhige, Traitor General, and Kane!Satan.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#222193: Jul 21st 2020 at 9:16:48 PM

One last dude for tonight, and I'll make this one really quick...a while ago we brought up the classic Western film Django, a genre-defining movie about a cowboy who roams the land carrying a gatling gun in a coffin, searching those whom he deems responsible for his wife's death.

What many of you probably don't know is that there's at least thirty more Django films—almost (almost, there is one actual sequel) all of them unlicensed. Italy copyright laws being as lax as they are, it ends up kind of being a situation similar to Maciste; generic genre movies were shat out year after year after year on minimal budgets, and then big-budget names like Maciste or Django were added to their titles after.

This guy comes from Django Kills Softly (original name Bill il taciturno, roughly "Bill the Taciturn") with George Eastman in the title role. Our baddie is named El Santo.

Who is El Santo? What has he done?

El Santo—"the Saint"—is the leading of a roving band of sadistic banditos in league with the film's other Big Bad, the corrupt Thompson. El Santo's gang roams on the border outside the town of Santa Anna. Anyone who wants to cross has to pay a hefty fee. Otherwise, El Santo comes down and takes what he can—by force.

El Santo's entire deal is wiping out caravans, murdering everyone on the premises and stealing everything they have. He opens the movie with a scene straight out of Once Upon A Time in the West, massacring an entire family, including the innocent young kid. El Santo, on Thompson's behalf, arrives at El Santo to take out Thompson's rival, Sanders. When Django comes upon the saloon, El Santo has slaughtered everyone in it; Sanders, the customers, the barmaids, everyone.

Django is eventually tasked to take a shipment through El Santo's territory, and El Santo, of course, tries to kill him and the caravan he's traveling with. A lot of people are murdered, but Django manages to outwit the fiendish bandito, upon which El Santo learns Thompson himself is trying to get rid of him. Furious, El Santo decides to kill Thompson and all of his men, leading to a final shootdown where EL Santo loses his life.

Any mitigating factors?

Thompson himself cares for the film's female lead, in a twisted but genuine way, so he's not even worth discussing. El Santo is the powerhouse in the movie; he's got at least three onscreen massacres, pretty much all of them toward innocent people with the gratuitous Death of a Child to help clinch how evil he is. No, El Santo doesn't have a thing that would complicate him.

Conclusion?

Keep. More Western baddies likely coming.

Edited by Scraggle on Jul 22nd 2020 at 1:52:27 PM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#222194: Jul 21st 2020 at 9:20:28 PM

[tup]El Santo (I always assumed Django from Django Unchained was an original character, until when the candidates first popped up I didn't know he was a pre-existing character)

Edited by nwotyzal on Jul 21st 2020 at 9:31:35 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#222195: Jul 21st 2020 at 9:34:54 PM

[tup] El Santo

[up] Well technically, Django's in that movie (Franco Nero makes a memorable cameo).

It's Spooky Month!
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#222196: Jul 21st 2020 at 9:42:03 PM

[tup]El Santo.

Why so serious?
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#222197: Jul 21st 2020 at 9:50:04 PM

[tup] El Santo.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#222198: Jul 21st 2020 at 9:53:07 PM

[tup] to El Santo. With over 31 films, we might end up needing a Monster.Django page at some point.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#222199: Jul 21st 2020 at 10:08:08 PM

Ehh, they aren't officially part of some franchise. So I don't think that'll be needed.

[tup] to El Santo

Edited by Kylotrope on Jul 21st 2020 at 7:09:46 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010

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