During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
This character is a previous Arc Villain whom the good guys are presently hauling around with them as leverage on his Man Behind the Man. Since his defeat, he's basically become a joke punchline.
Basically, this villain, Caesar Clown, has a special power where he can transform his body into poison gas. Since his defeat, he has been bound by an item that can negate this, leaving him a normal and weak human being, so he's rather...humiliated to say the least.
Also, I would dispute the blanked inclusion of the Celestial Dragons from One Piece on grounds that many of them don't do anything heinous on-screen, or are out-heinoused by some other villains.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
This was at Kamen Rider Fourze:
![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
Kamen Rider has The Great Leader and the Shocker commanders, especially Doctor Shinigami from the first series.
edited 22nd Feb '14 8:17:23 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I guess I can understand the arguments for Caesar. His current state has not forgiven him for his actions.
But I'd keep an eye on him, see where he goes. He will most likely remain Butt-Monkey status, but I can't help but feel he'll pull a Crocodile, going from Complete Monster to kinda fun Enemy Mine character.
As for Hody, I'm sorry, but there's just too much luggage he's carrying to make him a Complete Monster. Were the other Fishmen targets of racism? Yes. But he was unique, since he had hateful, spiteful racism drilled into his head by Arlong. No other Fishman has gone as nuts as he has because they didn't have that same kind of multigenerational pure spite planted into their heads since childhood.
If you just want to go through evil characters, you could claim that a bunch are Complete Monsters. You could make the argument that Spandam, Doflamingo, Hogback, and plenty more are Complete Monsters, but there has to be some kind of limit.
Here's what I pointed out before: This isn't unique. Hody more or less admitted he doesn't care about the whole thing. He's just in it for himself. Characters who were slaves and suffered horrible at the hands of humans were more redeeming than Hody. Hacchan, who was part of Arlong's crew, found redemption and realized he was wrong.
You're finding excuses where none exist. Hody isn't evil because of his upbringing. He's also evil towards his own people. And he has no excuse for that as Arlong, for all his monstrosity, would never have harmed another Fishman.
spandam and Hogback have failed the heinous standard, but DoFlamingo would be here when his arc ends if not for redeeming qualities.
edited 22nd Feb '14 11:16:31 AM by Lightysnake
Spandam is too low key for things. And Hody admitted humans have done nothing to him. All he wants to do is kill all the humans he comes across and punish Fishman Island for trying to make peace. Arlong would never hurt another Fishman, Hody? Uses them as a Human Shield all the fricking time.
Just gonna say now, it seems with the votes tallied all throughout the thread, Scar is a yea by a solid majority now.
Also, we need to go through the Power Rangers, Sentai, Kamen rider and Go Nagai monster pages. Sooner the better. I'll do what I can there. At least Lit is done, so we can get through Anime and Manga and Live Action TV
Btw, a rewrite I've wanted to do for a while now. John Ryder from The Hitcher
- John Ryder, the mysterious vagabond Serial Killer from The Hitcher gains a twisted obsession with the young hero Jim Halsey and begins hunting him down in an attempt to hurt and corrupt him. After terrifying him one, Ryder is given a ride by a family of four and murders them all gruesomely, including the little children. Ryder sets up Jim as the murderer as he continues racking up a body count. Ryder's most infamous act is to tie Jim's love interest, a waitress named Nash, between two trucks and tear her in half. Twisted and monstrous, Ryder is obsessed only interested in turning Jim into as much a monster as he is and killing as many people as possible.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I've gone through the first three and the YMMV and CM for each individual franchise's series now match. BTW, Film also needs to be looked at (I propose TV first; FWIW, the link to each sandbox is in my Sig.
We went through Film relatively recently, so the vast majority of it is absolutely fine, I should note. If we want to match up YMMV stuff, by all means. But only a few entries should need fixing or critique.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Maybe I'll do Film first then.
edited 22nd Feb '14 11:38:14 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Oh, one problem: for the Zatoichi film tree, the film The Blind Menace should be given its own entry, it's not part of the Zatoichi series and predates it
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So put it under B and say Zatoichi precursor...?
BTW, I renamed the first folder Directors and moved the Joker entries under B for Batman.
edited 22nd Feb '14 11:43:48 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
It's not exactly a precursor, given the main character is an evil rapist. but its connection should be mentioned in some way, like with "Starring Shintaro Katsu before his role in the Zatoichi films
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
The Blind Menace, staring Shintaro Katsu (or Shiranui Kengyo in Japan) before his role in the Zatoichi series, has as its Villain Protagonist the blind would-be Corrupt Politician Suginoichi.
I'll add that Hitcher entry to the Sandbox, but "after terrifying him one"?
edited 22nd Feb '14 12:43:39 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
'Once', sorry
Okay since Scar is now voted a keep, two things:
1. Will his original entry work or should he get a rewrite?
2. I'm going to make a Sandbox for Disney so I can alphabetize the entries and make a few tweaks.
edited 22nd Feb '14 3:53:03 PM by TVRulezAgain
What's the original?
- Scar from The Lion King. He sides with the hyenas to claim the throne of Pride Rock by killing his own brother, he makes said brother's son Simba think that he was the Swiss Messenger with Mufasa's death, and used Simba's guilt to his advantage and encouraged him to run away from home which lead to him being hunted and left for dead by the hyenas on Scar's order. To top it all off, during his reign, Scar turned a once prosperous savanna into a dreadful wasteland where he and the hyenas get to eat their prey to near extinction, eventually driving his own subjects, and even the hyenas to starvation. His response to his 0% Approval Rating? "I am the king, I can do whatever I want!"
I think I'll try a rewrite
Hang on, can we get an actual tally on who voted for what on Scar? Because saying "it seems with the votes tallied all throughout the thread, Scar is a yea by a solid majority now" is rather vague.
edited 22nd Feb '14 4:19:11 PM by Shaoken
Sorry, forgot to post. TV Rulez tallied the votes at 22043. From the last votes, we had 4-8 against, but the vote changes make it a 6-6. I'll exclude Krystoff's yea vote as he was banned. Not sure to count Redhood's proposal on him from a few months ago as a yea, either.
Yeas: Hodor, Tv Rulez, Lightysnake, Supersaiyaman, Anewman, Austin DR, ACW, Lord Xavius, Irene, 32_footssteps, Very Melon. Furienna
Nays Camberf, Occasional Exister, Shaoken, Ambar, Njrx
Fighteer had a maybe and Hamburgertime was unsure. Not sure which way Bobg went
edited 22nd Feb '14 4:39:43 PM by Lightysnake
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Wow, so 12-8 at most for Scar (and dammit, now I'm leaning toward unsure 
but it doesn't matter).
5/6 actually. The previous 8 yeas were changed by two altered votes. Most of it remained consistent.
