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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#219501: Jul 3rd 2020 at 3:07:00 AM

I'm going to check and see if i'm gonna find anything in non-canon comics that i'm going to check out for more candidates.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jul 3rd 2020 at 1:09:00 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#219502: Jul 3rd 2020 at 3:09:21 AM

Also, hell, Anderson: Psi-Division is IDW and not 2000 AD, but if we create a Dredd page, I'll include it just like the CSI page includes, say, Cold Case.

BTW, I know IDW had one with 30 issues...I may give that a look to see if that Judge Death counts.

EDIT: Scratch it, I WILL take a look at that. Everyone fine with a Dredd subpage? We already have a header:

Judge Dredd takes place After the End, but in a dystopian Police State such as Mega-City One, which is not a great place to live, Joseph "Joe" Dredd himself is an angel compared to these villains.

Edited by ACW on Jul 3rd 2020 at 7:01:35 AM

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#219504: Jul 3rd 2020 at 4:05:38 AM

My second candidate from DC!Judge Dredd comic series, he is the villain in issues 6 and 7 (as always, all pages with the candidate linked in the EP)

Who is Warden Clarence Suskind?

A revolting warden of Mega City's Department of Incrceration, Clarence managed to found a scheme, which allows him to rule the entire prison with only 3 guards, all of which were his cousins. He did that by making the inmate Richard to develope a VR machine, that allowed people to enter Virtual Reality to create their own simulation of the world. After the inamet got released, Suskind took this VR machine from him and sold it to Mickey the Stump and his gang, who then iused it to plug several innocent people in it and make them addicted to a point, that when they took of the VR helmet, they are reduced to animalistic barely sentient madmen. After Dredd busted Mickey and destroyed his operation, Suskind found another use for VR machine, he made Virtual World a living Hell and pluged all the criminals in there, with assigning them worse tortures by the extend of their crime. The small time criminals were sent to an empty wasteland-like world, where they go insane out of the fact, that the virtual world is empty and devoid of life, middle level threat criminals (like pyro-maniacs, gang members, muggers and ec.) are sent to Virtual Mines, where they are stuck to eternally work and also get paiunfully crushed by the stones at the regular basis, before they are ressurected to work again, lowest of the low are sent to a Virtual Hell, where they are tortured by the most vile methods for eternity without end or rest. Also, he regularly allows his cousins to venture into a Virtual World and kill anyone they like (not in truly kill, as due to it being a VR death was not permament).

Suskind introduced assuring Fargo that Prison has plenty of space for new inmates, after Fargo fired all the Judges to impliment his system, which allowed chaos to run the street for awhile. After meeting Judge Dredd, Suskind was summoned back to a meeting with the company, that formerly employed guards in his prison. After talking with that company's representative, Suskind refused to hear out his cousins (dismissing them entierly and not letting them speak), who tried to say that they found Judge Dredd in VR world (he was summoned there by Richard, who returned there, after being revolted by the real world). After Dredd's actions there, one large inmate manage to get free and killed all 3 Suskind's cousins, while he was in the VR world. While Richard uses Dredd to distract the tortured prisoners, so that he could rewrite VR world and free everyone from torment, Suskind talked with someone called Jeffrey about the new torture methods he wants to impliment. Seeing Judge Dredd he orders the prisoners to release him, smugly asking him how he likes his new system and that it is a dawn of a new era (deing proud how he found a way to be able to run a prison with just 3 guards), before Richard rewritten the code and banished Suskind back to the real world, while telling that he freed all of the prisoners from his torment. Suskind says that he will order his cousins to do 'some shooting" and when Dredd said that he will come after him, Suskind in panic trieds to call his cousins, while sayins that he has enough money to ge "me someplace safe" (not even reffering the cousins in that sentence) and screaming more furious when cousins didn't answer, as he opened the door he saw a lot of inmates ready to kill him for what he put them through.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

As we see none. While he give his cousins a job, he never once shown to treat them as cousins anywhere in the comic, dismissing them and only referring to them as "help", when the inmates got free in the end and he needed a "muscle" to help him get "me someplace safe", not even thinking about sharing his money or safe place with any of his cousins. there is a high chance that even hired them in the first place to save up more money, as he didn't need to pay them much, after he fired all security guards.

Also him sparing Dredd was not shown to be out of altruism, but simply out of pragmatism and pride, expecting the Judge to share his joy at his new system and smugly showing off hiw power by seeing that Dredd was overwhelmed and helpless against the tortured prisoners and ordering them to free him. Also take into a fact that Dredd is favorite pupil of fargo, with whom he makes deals with and Dredd's dissapearence would resulted in Fargo noticing something is wrong and bust his scheme.

Since he saw no problem selling the VR stuff to a gang, who used it to drive several innocents insane, the thought of him wanting to deliver any kind of justice is also out of the question, as its clear he only in ti for money.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Suskind is a low level compare to the likes of Fargo and Booth and he is only a villain of two issues, but he manage to stick out with his MO ala creating a Virtual Hell for hundreds of prisoners, where they are tortured for eternity to the point of going insane. Also he selled VR machine to a gang, which used it to drive several innocent people insane and homocidal, resulting in several deaths, i believe this adds him a heinous points.

Final Verdict?

What do you think?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#219505: Jul 3rd 2020 at 4:08:30 AM

For a non-2000AD villain, I'll give a yes. Fargo's a WIE?

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#219506: Jul 3rd 2020 at 4:16:55 AM

Yeah, i already got him approved in MB thread, Fargo truly wants to bring Justice to the streets and geniunely cares about Judge Dredd (to the point of seeing him like a son figure).

captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#219507: Jul 3rd 2020 at 5:16:42 AM

[tup] Booth and Suskind (edit because I forgot his name)

Edited by captainmarkle on Jul 3rd 2020 at 2:18:00 PM

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#219508: Jul 3rd 2020 at 5:20:49 AM

[tup]Black Shuck, Booth, suskind

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#219509: Jul 3rd 2020 at 5:38:34 AM

[tup] Bad Bob and the Warden.

DelphineTheDelphox I thought sharks were my friends. from The Alola Region Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I thought sharks were my friends.
#219510: Jul 3rd 2020 at 5:42:27 AM

Sure to Booth and Suskind

RIP KissAnime.
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#219511: Jul 3rd 2020 at 6:13:52 AM

[tup] to Booth and Suskind

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#219515: Jul 3rd 2020 at 8:53:29 AM

Yes to Booth and Suskind. I'm fine with a Judge Dress subpage.

So now that we are in agreement on what to do with Skynet. Who wants to make the tree?

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#219518: Jul 3rd 2020 at 9:14:19 AM

[up][up][up]I can try. But i need to reatch the movies first.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#219519: Jul 3rd 2020 at 10:15:07 AM

So the last of us 2 's discussion date is here. Ultimate demom and lighty What do you think.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#219521: Jul 3rd 2020 at 10:19:52 AM

[tup] to Warden Clarence Suskind.

Here's my write-up for Shao Kahn:

RiceRomp Since: Jul, 2020
#219522: Jul 3rd 2020 at 10:24:53 AM

Hey, first time forum poster here. I recently rewatched Knives Out and afterwards went into its TV Tropes page. I was surprised that the villain wasn’t listed as a Complete Monster, as I find them to be quite despicable and lacking in any redeeming qualities. Was there any discussion over determining if this character was a Complete Monster? If there wasn’t I think there definitely should be, and if there was and it was said that they weren’t, I think it’s worth revisiting.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#219523: Jul 3rd 2020 at 10:27:29 AM

There was discussion, and I THINK he was deemed not heinous enough (either that or not played seriously enough).

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#219524: Jul 3rd 2020 at 10:28:01 AM

[up][up] There was. The villain was decided to not cross the baseline for this trope.

Edited by Bullman on Jul 3rd 2020 at 12:28:05 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance

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