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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#218201: Jun 19th 2020 at 3:16:57 PM

Just real quick, I was wondering if I could clean up the Sweet Licks entry; I think it's a little too wordy, and most of it is about his backstory as opposed to his villainous actions.

  • Original:
    • "Clowns 3D": The clown simply known as Sweet Licks was once a normal businessman and entrepreneur, who ran the company/attraction Sweet Licks Family Fun Center and Ice Cream Emporium with his two adult children. However, after the vilification of clowns through horror media, dressing up as clowns to entertain people became a difficult business practice, as no one wanted to shop or even visit their attraction anymore. To make matters worse, the country developed a demand for low-calorie food, resulting in very little people being interested in Sweet Licks's treats. The company fell on hard times, and Sweet Licks became so obsessed with working that he stayed inside the cold factory for years until parts of him became permanently frozen. Filled with rage, Sweet Licks snapped and began killing humans, then turning them into "all natural, high protein ice cream". He then used his attraction to lure in and trap visitors, who he proceeds to kill by hanging from meat hooks or fill with ice cream until they burst, collecting their organs and vomit to use as ingredients. He uses pickaxes and chainsaws to both attack guests and mutilate still-alive victims and other clowns. As guests try to flee, he attacks them again and defeats them.

  • Rewrite:

Edited by SumDumNerd on Jun 19th 2020 at 4:31:19 AM

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#218202: Jun 19th 2020 at 3:24:58 PM

[tup] Blueblood

[tup] the Weird Ice cream clown rewrite

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#218203: Jun 19th 2020 at 3:26:30 PM

[up] Looks good to me

Edit: although, the Cold-Blooded Torture plothole could go to "Pop!" Goes the Human

Edited by Libraryseraph on Jun 19th 2020 at 6:27:01 AM

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#218204: Jun 19th 2020 at 3:32:57 PM

Abstaining on Blueblood

Alright, Tyk and I will have a collab coming up soon enough that I'm very excited for, but in the meantime? My pending write-ups....

  • Into the Black Nowhere: Kyle Detrick is a Control Freak and Serial Killer, his pattern involving kidnapping women to torture and rape them for weeks before killing them, acting out a fantasy of revenge on his college crush Dahlia for rejecting him. Spending his free time working at a suicide hotline just so he can get off to women on the cusp of taking their own lives, Detrick is captured by law enforcement for only a limited time before causing a traffic pile-up to enable his escape, nealry killing dozens of drivers. Corrupting his secretary into killing others for him, Detrick hunts down Dahlia and tortures her to death before targeting the woman's teenage daughter, hoping to slaughter an entire sorority of dozens of women as a final romp of fun before finishing off Dahlia's daughter.

  • Sally the Ghost Hunter: Reverend Trevor was once a Friend to All Living Things, spending his time caring for young children and making them happy, but when his own ego and lust for eternal life became too strong, Trevor began slaughtering the children left in his care, mutilating and draining them of their blood so as to take baths in it under the belief that it will grant him immortality. Though killed by enraged townsfolk after butchering nearly a dozen children, Trevor continued to haunt the area as a ghost, killing children throughout the town and draining them of their blood to continue his mad quest for life everlasting.

  • Batman: The Animated Series: Grant Walker is a seemingly affable theme park mogul who seeks only to prolong his life by way of Mr. Freeze's ice technology, but in truth harbors much darker intentions. Kidnapping Freeze and using his comatose wife as a bargaining chip to convince Freeze to give Walker his icy, undying condition, Walker soon enough reveals his plan to use a massive freeze cannon to plunge the entire world into a new Ice Age for years. Walker hopes to kill off all of humanity except for his "chosen few", then repopulate the planet with his own Garden of Eden, and though his plan is foiled, Walker returns in The Batman Adventures, where he kidnaps several scientists to cure himself of a lethal condition, planning to kill them all and then restart his scheme to wipe out humankind.

  • Becky: Dominick is a merciless, soft-spoken Neo-Nazi who seeks a mysterious key that will help him change the world to one where white supremacy reigns. Orchestrating a prison breakout by killing two prisoners and his security guards, Dominick flags down a passing car, beats the driver to death, and orders Apex to kill the two screaming children inside so as to steal the vehicle. With his thugs in tow, Dominick invades a lake house and takes the family inside hostage, torturing and killing the father Jeff to coerce his teenage daughter Becky into handing over the sought-after key. When Becky fights back and begins picking off his goons, Dominick violently targets Jeff's girlfriend Kayla and her son Ty, shooting the woman in the leg and nearly throttling her son in front of her. Dominick ultimately tries to kill Becky and the others even after getting what he wants, shooting the loyal Apex for getting in his way and trying to save the family.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#218205: Jun 19th 2020 at 3:39:15 PM

Anyone count in

  • legends of Tomorrow Season 5: June 16th, 2020 (Forenperser)
  • 13 Reasons Why Season 4: June 19th, 2020

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Looperreallyreallyrocks Since: Jun, 2018
#218206: Jun 19th 2020 at 3:47:11 PM

No one counts in 13 RW.

Diego has mitigating factors (his main motive was to avenge Bryce and Monty among other things), Winston, despite serving a more antagonistic role in this season, is barely even a villain, and Clay, whose character took a darker turn in the season and went through a partial Face–Heel Turn, is nowhere close to heinous enough, and he still has chunks of mitigating factors.

As for Bryce, the season noticeably went back to demonizing him, but most of the redeeming qualities introduced last season still exist.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#218207: Jun 19th 2020 at 3:48:53 PM

I think I can speak for 13 Reasons Why. Nobody counts, Winston is the closet thing that the season has for a villain, and he wasn't that villainous and a bit of a nice guy if I recall correctly. And the only two people who are heinous enough to qualify, were already given unearned redeeming qualities in season 3 and both have met their totally earned demises in season 3 as well. Though, the season doesn't treat the two as sympathetically as season 3 did so..... That's a plus. And that's pretty much everything I got to say for the new season in terms of C Ms.

[nja] And Looper beat me to it. Aw well, at least I finally have an excuse to use that Ninja symbol. I also honestly forgotten about Diego, though why he would to avenge people like Bryce and Monty baffles me.

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Jun 19th 2020 at 3:51:23 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#218208: Jun 19th 2020 at 3:50:31 PM

I personally thought nobody would count in Legends Season 5, but then somebody messaged me about asking to put up an Effortpost for one Villain of the Week. Might go either way.

Anyways, I've been quite busy with work during the last days, but I should be able to produce the EP within the next 3 days.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Looperreallyreallyrocks Since: Jun, 2018
#218209: Jun 19th 2020 at 3:50:48 PM

They are still doing everything they can to make Monty sympathetic (not really sure why, but... guess it’s cuz he’s a “human being”?), but Bryce’s redemption arc was basically deconstructed completely.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#218210: Jun 19th 2020 at 3:53:23 PM

Rewrite looks good Nerd and love the writeups Ravok!

SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#218211: Jun 19th 2020 at 3:59:37 PM

[up] Good deal. Adding to drafts.

Edited by SumDumNerd on Jun 19th 2020 at 5:03:50 AM

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#218212: Jun 19th 2020 at 3:59:59 PM

Speaking of new proposals, I'm going to discuss a series a little ahead of schedule. But since I'm the only one who follows this one, it shouldn't be a problem.

What Is the Work?

His Night Begins Season 3 is the final season of the series, and what I think is a glorious ending to the saga of hitman Virat Nariman, but we’re not talking about that.

After Virat stopped Sai Khali Bhakth’s child trafficking operation, instead of the happy ending he was expecting, what he got was the wrath of the Syndicate, a massive criminal enterprise that controls all crime in India. After surviving a gang-style shooting, Virat must now defeat the Syndicate, murder its leader, and avenge the ones taken from him, while also attempting to reconnect with his obnoxious, drug addicted son.

Unfortunately for Virat, there’s two monstrous humans he must defeat in order to lay his violent past to rest, which we’ll be covering. Let's cover the first one.

Who Is he?

Pepe Tidema D’Souza is the leader of the Syndicate...

... except actually he isn't.

In truth, Pepe's nothing but a mere puppet for the Syndicate's real leader, Ahman Gotwani, a face to hide his identity. Despite all of that, Pepe manages to be just as bad as his boss. His true pleasures in life? Rape, murder, and high speed bike racing.

What has he done?

A silver haired, ponytail wearing man with a love of plastic surgery, Pepe originally cut his teeth selling weapons to the likes of the LTTE and other terrorist guerilla factions, gaining attention from the Syndicate and becoming their chief arms dealer for decades. Once the Syndicate moved away from gun and missile trading to the likes of drugs, gambling, and human trafficking, Pepe was sidelined by the Syndicate’s then-leader. The leader was later found crucified to his Monet painting inside his penthouse. Because Ahman wants to hide in the shadows from criminal gangs, he made Pepe act as the head, temporarily putting him in charge of the operation, while giving him commands.

Virat’s heavily injured and recovers at a farm, depressed at the loss of his wife. Virat later finds the bullet-ridden corpse of his wife, mutilated, implied to have been tortured to death, with a cellphone placed in her mouth, and a note telling him to call a number. Virat calls it and hears Pepe’s voice. Pepe, seeing Virat as his new bitch to own and boss around, forces Virat to kill his accountant to cover up evidence of the previous child trafficking operation, otherwise it would mean the death of his son. Oh, and also? Pepe states that he plans to relaunch the child trafficking operation that Virat worked so hard to destroy in the previous two seasons. While Virat is killing the accountant at a wedding, the Syndicate sends two hitmen to kill him once the job’s done, though they’re outsmarted and killed by Virat.

Episode 4 is when Pepe’s properly introduced. Fully aware that Virat survived his assassination attempts, Pepe captures one of Virat’s friends, Chetia, and heads toward the desert, hoping to squeeze some information about Virat from him. He even brags to him about how because he called Virat earlier, he was able to trace the call and track him down. Once they arrive at their destination, Pepe reveals to Chetia the body of Sukado Brashad, a kind farmer and former soldier who nursed Virat back to health after his bullet shower from earlier. He met with Pepe earlier in an attempt to protect Virat, but Pepe saw through his lies, and dragged him across the pavement with his car, leaving his body a bloody, horrific mess. Once Chetia finds this out, he screams, but he’s interrupted when Pepe puts a bullet in his head. Virat is later sent a text from Pepe containing a photograph of Chetia’s severed head and Brashad’s mangled corpse telling him that his men are just around the corner, even happily admitting that he killed all of Brashad’s horses.

In episode 10, it’s revealed that Pepe’s also a rapist of young men, making his bodyguard Minesh knock them out and bring them to him, whereupon he strangles them to death as soon as he’s about to climax to heighten the strength of ecstasy, before having Minesh bring more young men to him. Rinse and repeat. Speaking of Minesh, he took in the 5-year-old Minesh to raise him as one of his own, turning him into a sadistic brute with a love of watching others suffer. Even when he’s racing in a Hayabusa motorbike race, he thinks about kicking his competition off, but doesn't because he had already fulfilled his bloodlust last night. So Virat’s team manage to kill Minesh, and Virat crashes into Pepe’s bike, causing the two to sputter out. An injured Virat walks over to an even more injured Pepe attempting to crawl away from the mess, and strangles him to death with a piano wire. Pepe dies croaking that he’s not the real Syndicate leader.

Redeeming Qualities?

Pepe once references his father’s love of the sea, though it’s only in passing, and the quote his father gave him, about how the ocean has limitless possibilities, takes a more sinister direction in context to Pepe’s choice of career.

While the narration claims that he treated Minesh like “family” while he was raising him, he doesn’t really show love for him, only viewing him as a bodyguard meant to protect him and bring him more men to rape. The fact that he raised him to be as sadistic as him also shows just how warped Pepe’s sense of love is.

Heinousness?

While he was just a decoy to hide Ahman’s presence, that doesn’t change the fact that Pepe’s still a sadistic, murderous rapist who takes advantage of the Syndicate to lavish himself in things he loves.

Conclusion

Keeper.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Jun 19th 2020 at 4:02:03 AM

It's Spooky Month!
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#218213: Jun 19th 2020 at 4:01:42 PM

[tup] Pepe the Frog.

Also, Principal Bolan turns the school into a Nineteen Eighty-Four-esque nightmare and has the gall to implement a surprise fake shooter drill that traumatizes Clay even further, but he still fails the standard compared to Bryce and every indication is that Bolan genuinely wanted to protect the kids.

Edited by MasterN on Jun 19th 2020 at 4:03:16 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#218214: Jun 19th 2020 at 4:04:25 PM

[tup]pepe

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#218216: Jun 19th 2020 at 4:10:24 PM

Bryce and Monty are the most evil characters in 13RW's universe but they were killed last season after displaying several mitigating factors. And there are strangely no flashbacks in this season that could expand on or invalidate said mitigating factors. Their ghosts appear though. Bryce's ghost acts almost entirely in line with his S1/S2 portrayal but still nothing that invalidates what he displayed in S3. Monty's ghost however, implies that he may have felt remorse for raping Tyler ("I got angry and did stuff that wasn't in my heart."), he also apparently always had his friends back which is why they are so hurt by his death.

Looperreallyreallyrocks Since: Jun, 2018
#218217: Jun 19th 2020 at 4:14:53 PM

I feel like Monty’s “remorse” was just a figment of Clay’s imagination. Whenever we saw real!Monty after his rape of Tyler, he was either mocking Tyler about it, passing it off as “hazing” or a “joke”, threatening to do it again, or generally unconcerned about what he had done (and could have caused).

Although, the imagined remorse could be chalked up to the season wanting him to appear sympathetic.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#218218: Jun 19th 2020 at 4:15:38 PM

Few of the writeups of mine that i want to change a bit:

All of them are from Masters of the Universe page. First off Skeletor and Mumm-Ra from He-Man/ThunderCats, i decided to separate them, since Skeletor goes off to commit more crimes in the sequel series, independant of Mumm-Ra. Also even in the comic both Mumm-Ra and Skeletor have made some evil actions independantly from each other in the early issues.

Original:

He-Man/ThunderCats & Injustice vs. Masters of the Universe: Skeletor and Mumm-Ra are the evil supernatural beings who decided to unite in order to destroy their sworn enemies and take over all reality. Enslaving the Ancient Spirits of Evil, thus giving them the form of titanic beasts, the two command them to cause chaos all over Eternia in order to take possession of two ancient magic swords, the Sword of Omens and the Sword of Power. As a result, thousands of Eternians were killed, and nearly all Eternia was on the brink of destruction. When the remaining forces of Eternia and the ThunderCats managed to defeat their beasts, Skeletor and Mumm-Ra fused into the extremely powerful Mumm-Ator and, after destroying the remaining opposition, break into Castle Grayskull to try to take over the multiverse. After Lion-O and He-Man combined their power to separate and banish them, the weakened Skeletor pretends to serve both Darkseid and the power-mad Superman, manipulating them both, causing Darkseid to invade Eternia, an action which resulted in many more people being killed or brainwashed to be servants of Darkseid.

My proposed change:

Skeletor is a vile warlock and the most relentless enemy of He-Man. Discovering that the existence of another universe, Skeletor has made a contact with the Ancient Spirits of Evil, having them bring their world closer to Eternia, causing cataclysm that destroyed part of the great city of Eternos, before he captured their agent Mumm-Ra and transformed him into a liquid, which he drank, despite Mumm-Ra still being alive and sentient. Later on bringing Mumm-ra back to his original form, Skeletor joined forces with him, enslaving the Ancient Spirits of Evil and having them spread chaos and destruction all over Eternia, killing thousands. Desiring to transform Eternia into a horrific place, where all those who oppose him will die and the rest of the population will be enslaved, Skeletor trasformed himself and Mumm-Ra into Mumm-Ator, before he tried to take over the multiverse. Failing at that and being banished, Skeletor starts pretending to serve Darkseid and the brutal version of Superman, using them to get his way into Castle Gresykull again, while assisting Superman in upholding his tyrannical regime and revealing to Darkseid that the answer to Anti-Life Equestion was always in Castle Greyskull, leading to Darkseid attacking Eternia and slaughtering thousands and brainwashing thousands more.

Mumm-Ra is an evil servant of the Ancient Spirits of Evil, who aided their attack on Eternia, leading many monsters to attack the great city of Eternos and personally impaling Prince Adam, sadistically mocking him. Joining forces with Skeletor, Mumm-Ra helped him to enslave his former masters, making them spread death and destruction around the planet, openly sharing Skeletor's plan to take over the world and trasnform it to horrific place, where people would either die or be eternal slaves. Transforming with Skeletor into a powerful Mumm-Ator and tried to take over the multiverse, Mumm-Ra wanted to help Skeletor to create this future for the whole multiverse.

Also, couple of corrections:

Injustice: Gods Among Us & Injustice vs. Masters of the Universe: Darkseid is the despotic ruler of the planet Apokolips and one of the most sworn and powerful enemies of Superman. Torturing Black Racer into submission, Darkseid allows his son Kalibak to lead an assault on Earth, killing tens of thousands of people, before his army was destroyed by Superman. Angered at the fact that Superman sullied his reputation by killing Kalibak, Darkseid starts scheming the destruction of Superman more aggressively, first hiring Lobo to take him down and then, when that failed, joining the conspiracy with Ares and Hera, manipulating humans, superheroes, and Olympians into a bloody conflict, with the human government even launching nukes as a result. After this, Darkseid found the weakened Skeletor in the cosmos, and from him, he found the location of the solution to Anti-Life Equation to be in Castle Grayskull. Invading Eternia, Darkseid kills, captures and transforms thousands of people into his obedient slaves, as he tries to uncover Anti-Life Equation, to take control of the multiverse, killing the minds and personalities of every living being aside from himself.

I would like to add "would" to the last sentence, since as of now it makes it look like he succeded.

King Hiss is an ancient ruler of the Snake Men, who was on the verge of conquering Eternia, feeding on many innocents and desiring to destroy whole civilizations to keep himself at the top. After being banished to the Void by the Elders and Zodac, he was freed by the combined effort of a descendant of the Snake Men Kobra Khan and Evil-Lyn, King Hiss wasted no time trying to eat them later, only stopping when the latter promises to help him obtain Power of the Elders. Wanting to be at the top of a food chain again, King Hiss plots various schemes, while eating more and more innocent creatures alive. First, he tries to turn every person into a Snake Man who he can control, and when that fails, he tries to set his god Serpos free to cause destruction upon Eternia, planning to "cleanse" the land, with the survivors becoming either slaves or food.

"freed by the combined effort of a descendant of the Snake Men Kobra Khan and Evil-Lyn, King Hiss wasted no time trying to eat them later", King Hiss only attempted to eat Evil-Lyn, since he allowed Kobra Khan to serve him earlier.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jun 19th 2020 at 2:30:33 PM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#218219: Jun 19th 2020 at 4:16:04 PM

Wait there's ghosts in 13W? I thought this was an average teen drama.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#218220: Jun 19th 2020 at 4:17:12 PM

Sure to Pepe. Damn... The guy's brutal.

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Looperreallyreallyrocks Since: Jun, 2018
#218221: Jun 19th 2020 at 4:18:59 PM

[up][up] They’re all hallucinations.

Edited by Looperreallyreallyrocks on Jun 19th 2020 at 4:19:57 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#218222: Jun 19th 2020 at 4:22:35 PM

I will take everyone’s word on 13 Reasons Why (those who have seen it). I never watched the show because it would be extremely depressing to sit through and when it first started, I was in a really tough place.

That all said, how in the heck did Seasons 2-4 mess things up so badly!?

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#218224: Jun 19th 2020 at 4:25:21 PM

Yes to Pepe. Future, does how they wrote it badly matter?

Edited by 43110 on Jun 19th 2020 at 7:32:57 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#218225: Jun 19th 2020 at 4:41:52 PM

@Looperreallyreallyrocks: Cool. Thanks for clearing that up.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

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