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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#218026: Jun 17th 2020 at 5:20:51 PM

[up][up] Don't forget he also fought a CM (Dag).

Edited by therealjackieboy on Jun 17th 2020 at 5:21:15 AM

It's Spooky Month!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#218027: Jun 17th 2020 at 5:25:48 PM

[tdown]Trench

Hes close but not quite their

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#218028: Jun 17th 2020 at 5:26:09 PM

Nay to Trench, the thing with Guys like Tamson is they go up and out of there way to be awful as they can be, Wich isnt the case with Trench.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#218029: Jun 17th 2020 at 5:32:39 PM

[tdown] for Admiral Trench.

[tup] for Dominick.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
DelphineTheDelphox I thought sharks were my friends. from The Alola Region Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I thought sharks were my friends.
#218030: Jun 17th 2020 at 5:44:47 PM

Sure to Dom.

RIP KissAnime.
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#218031: Jun 17th 2020 at 5:56:51 PM

[tup] to Dom

[tdown] To Tench

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#218032: Jun 17th 2020 at 5:58:46 PM

Oh, and a [tup] to Dominick.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#218033: Jun 17th 2020 at 6:08:01 PM

[tup]Dominick.

Now that I think about it, who are the most unlikely actors to play a CM? Because Kevin James is now at the top of the list.

Edited by k410ren on Jun 17th 2020 at 9:08:09 AM

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#218034: Jun 17th 2020 at 6:26:40 PM

[tdown][tdown][tdown][tdown]Trench. Apart from a jacked up Heinous standard he seems to be more the lackey of someone worse every time

[tup]Paul Blart the Neo Nazi

Edited by xie323 on Jun 17th 2020 at 6:27:03 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#218035: Jun 17th 2020 at 6:41:05 PM

No to Trench but yes to, um... Kevin James.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#218036: Jun 17th 2020 at 6:50:05 PM

No to Trench, but enthusiastic yes to Paul Blart Neo-Nazi.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#218038: Jun 17th 2020 at 6:59:59 PM

Hindsight is an interesting thing sometimes.

Anyway, yes to the Neo Nazi

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#218039: Jun 17th 2020 at 7:06:59 PM

[tup] Dom.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#218042: Jun 17th 2020 at 8:33:46 PM

[tup] Dominick. [tdown] Admiral Trench.

Here are my write-ups for Shao Kahn and Sauron. For Shao Kahn, I've added in his new crimes and edited it to fit with the new retcon of Sindel:

Original:

Shao Kahn, Emperor of Outworld, is a brutal warlord who seeks to merge all realms with his own. Having poisoned his master, Onaga, Shao Kahn would later subjugate many other worlds, including the peaceful Edenia where he killed the benevolent King Jerrod and took Jerrod's family for his own, prompting his new wife Sindel to kill herself. Shao Kahn would later invade Earthrealm and, with the help of a brainwashed Sindel, who had been resurrected by Shang Tsung, would use his magic to rip out the souls of everyone on Earthrealm while sending his extermination squads to hunt down survivors. Later on, he would go on to form an uneasy alliance with Quan Chi, Shang Tsung, and Onaga in the hopes of preventing the Forces of Good from defeating Blaze, then seizing his own opportunity to strike when it came. He eventually succeeds and takes Blaze's power, pretty much killing Raiden, but not before the battered thunder god sends a message to his past self to avert Armageddon. In the new timeline, Shao Kahn, besides using Shang Tsung's Flesh Pits to create Mileena, a psychotic clone of Kitana, continues his brutal conquests, showing his total and utter disregard for anything resembling honor when he snaps Kung Lao's neck without even a formal issue of challenge, drains Shang Tsung of life to empower a brainwashed Sindel to slaughter Earthrealm's defenders, and then attempts to beat Earthrealm's remaining protectors to death, glorying in his attempts to take all creation for himself.

Rewrite:

Shao Kahn, Emperor of Outworld, is a brutal warlord who seeks to merge all realms with his own. Having poisoned his master, Onaga, Shao Kahn would later subjugate many other worlds, including the peaceful Edenia, where he took King Jerrod's family for his own. Shao Kahn would later invade Earthrealm and, with the help of Sindel, who had been resurrected by Shang Tsung, would use his magic to rip out the souls of everyone in Earthrealm while sending his extermination squads to hunt down survivors. Later on, he would go on to form an uneasy alliance with Quan Chi, Shang Tsung, and Onaga in the hopes of preventing the Forces of Good from defeating Blaze, then seizing his own opportunity to strike when it came. He eventually succeeds and takes Blaze's power and brutally beats Raiden before killing him. In the new timeline, Shao Kahn, besides using Shang Tsung's Flesh Pits to create Mileena, a psychotic clone of Kitana, continues his brutal conquests, showing his total and utter disregard for anything resembling honor when he snaps Kung Lao's neck without even a formal issue of challenge, drains Shang Tsung of life to empower Sindel to slaughter Earthrealm's defenders, and then attempts to beat Earthrealm's remaining protectors to death, glorying in his attempts to conquer Earthrealm for himself. Upon being recruited by Kronika, Shao Kahn turns on her and plans to take her Hourglass for himself to build his own empire spanning across all the realms. To that end, he leads his forces to wipe out both Kronika and Earthrealm's forces, while also spitefully breaking both of Liu Kang's legs to make him suffer even more. Absolutely bloodthirsty and only valuing those who are useful to him, Shao Kahn proves to be one of the most persistent threats to Earthrealm.

And my writeup for Sauron:

Where the Shadows Lie: Sauron is the Second Dark Lord who threatens to conquer all of Middle-Earth. After capturing the Fellowship of the Ring, he takes the One Ring from Frodo and locks them in his dungeon to be tortured and kept as his "trophies." He also betrays Sauruman and has him tortured him to death. To fully secure his control over Middle-Earth, Sauron orders his Orcs to raid various Elven cities to capture Elrond and Galadriel to acquire two of the three rings that were given to the Elves, in which the attack destroys many buildings and kills countless elves. He also subjects Elrond and Galadriel to the same torturous fate as the Fellowship for his own sadistic enjoyment. Later, Sauron offers to release the Fellowship if the bearer of the third Elven ring surrenders themselves, in which Gandalf takes this offer, but Sauron breaks his vow and proceeds to capture and torture Gandalf as well. When the Last Alliance lays siege to his fort, Sauron prepares to publicly execute the Fellowship and the other prisoners to break their spirits.

P.S. @ACW: This would also fit under the literature section of "Fan Works" as it mentions Melkor and has details that are mentioned in the book, but not the films.

Edited by DrUnknown on Jun 17th 2020 at 8:39:21 AM

LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#218043: Jun 17th 2020 at 8:51:47 PM

I have another Palpatine candidate (thing is I gave creative feedback to the writer that shaped how Palps turned out so I'm not sure I'm impartial enough.

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#218044: Jun 17th 2020 at 8:55:12 PM

Decided to do a quick EP of a character from an unusual series, I'm not 100% confident they count but I think there's a good case there and I would vote yes so here goes;

What is the Work?

Survivor: Fan Characters is a long running Pixel Art Comic (unlike most sprite comics there's no copying from video games, all the sprites are made 100% from scratch) that involves 16-20 fictional characters from various medias (mostly video games and TV shows) playing Survivor. While it started as just a quick cheaply made side project it's gotten more and more elaborate and experimental in recent years, with big sci-fi plots and dramatic character arcs and so forth. Disclaimer, the creator of this comic is a personal friend of mine, but I have no involvement in actually making it so I don't think I'm too biased to write an EP for it or anything.

Who's the Candidate

Bradlyn, who is a wealthy playboy that appeared on Season 11, hailing from Final Destination. In the first episode or two, Bradlyn just appeared to be a wealthy and shallow playboy trust fund type, but not especially villainous. However, Tialayla, who has a sixth sense for spotting criminals, becomes more and more physically uncomfortable around him and talks about his "black aura", which causes Bradlyn to start publicly berating and bullying her and in his confessional, making sexist comments directed at her and another woman on their team. This alone would just be standard Jerkass behavior of course, but in episode 4, that other girl, Honey, is alone with him at their camp and after a long conversation, figures out his dark secret...

Bradlyn's actually a cold-blooded murderer, who murdered his own wife and infant child in order to escape Death's List (I'm not familiar with Final Destination but apparently your life can be permanently saved by human sacrifice, someone else would have to expand on that). After some failed flirting attempts on his part lets Honey figure it out, she's of course horrified and tells the rest of the team, which causes someone else to betray their alliance just because they refuse to play the game with a psychopath, and Bradlyn promptly goes home swearing revenge and defamation lawsuits.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

For a work about a reality tv show that otherwise contains no murders or violence whatsoever, murdering your wife and infant child in cold blood just to save your own skin/become immortal easily tops the series's standard and stands out as really viciously heinous and unusual for the work, pretty easy pass imo.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

The one thing would be that Bradlyn's murders are somewhat Off Screen Villainy, since they're in the backstory and we never see him murder anyone, but all the details are given to us in exposition and spelled out by the other characters, which has already been established in this thread as good enough, so I don't think that's an actual problem.

Other than that, nope. Bradlyn's a smug, sexist and classist douchebag who happens to secretly be a sociopathic child-murderer. Nothing remotely redeeming there.

Final Verdict?

Based on everything I've written here I'd say Bradlyn's a solid enough keep, although I can see some arguments against it so we'll see how it goes.

Edited by WaryHoglet on Jun 17th 2020 at 8:57:31 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#218045: Jun 17th 2020 at 8:59:39 PM

Honestly not to sure, since you said they were offscreen villainy. Honestly leaning [tdown] unless I'm missing something

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#218046: Jun 17th 2020 at 9:00:28 PM

[up] I was under the impression that if a crime is laid out in detail it doesn't have to be physically on-camera to count; that's the standard we've used before

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#218047: Jun 17th 2020 at 9:02:36 PM

That one's pretty straight Offscreen Villainy and also, it's only two killings. Bad guy, but CM he is not

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#218048: Jun 17th 2020 at 9:05:02 PM

[up] Tbh while this is somewhat ironic for me to say since I'm usually very skeptical on examples, I don't really understand having an exact, hard body count required for this trope...shouldn't it be dependent on the work? Like for a work that has absolutely no other violence "only" 2 (very personal) kills really stand out, and saying "not enough body count" isn't really consistent with the "we judge heinousness by series standard" to me which is part of why I thought of putting it up.

But I realize it's not a super strong EP so if there's no support for it that's fine.

Edited by WaryHoglet on Jun 17th 2020 at 9:05:34 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#218049: Jun 17th 2020 at 9:05:27 PM

Before I vote on Bradlyn is he an original character, or was he an actual candidate from the reality tv show (there are a lot of contestants)

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#218050: Jun 17th 2020 at 9:05:53 PM

[up] He's an entirely fictional character with no real world basis


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