During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Uh I could double check a version of Bathory from a book I read. Only thing is shes a flashback only villain but we see everything in said flashback (utter carnage) to the point she's worse then the actual Big Bad. Would anyone be interested in seeing that ?
Edited by miraculous on Jun 17th 2020 at 2:53:28 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."@Sky: Wait, was the screenplay itself intended as propaganda?
@Lighty: This is not a "hill", this is me stating my disagreement and trying to understand why you don't think this screenplay shouldn't be discussed.
@Wary: Why do you think that? There are plenty of candidates who I didn't object to cutting. Vandal Savage. Farouk. President Snow.
@miraculous: If there's some kind of site policy against discussing Scientology and its materials, then I guess he shouldn't go up.
TBH, I don't particularly care if Xenu goes up or not. What I want to understand is why we're rejecting him out of hand. Yes, I know about the controversies, but aren't we supposed to take a Death of the Author approach when evaluating candidates? We have approved CMs who were created by convicted sex offenders, so I don't see why this is such a red line. Are we afraid of getting in trouble with Scientology?
Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Jun 17th 2020 at 2:55:32 AM
"Belief in the reality of Xenu and body thetans is a condition for progressing beyond OT III along Scientology's Bridge to Total Freedom."
It was a screenplay based on the source material for scientology, Imperial. I gathered that it was intended for the purpose of indoctrination.
You mean change the policy to allow examples from propaganda and other such works? I politely decline.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Jun 17th 2020 at 6:04:28 AM
Just pointing something out: The Intruder's CM writeup is at The Intruder, but it doesn't count until The Intruder II, as in the first one he's a mindless monster.
"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times?"@Sky: Well, if it was intended for indoctrination then... yeah, I guess I see why we're rejecting Death of the Author in this case. And I mean the "no discussion of Scientology and its materials" policy.
@miraculous: I said I don't and I withdrew my argument. Can we please move on and stop casting aspersions?
@Nightmares: That is odd. Should it be changed?
Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Jun 17th 2020 at 3:07:51 AM
Maybe. I'm just pointing it out. I think miraculous said something similar about Rassilon from Doctor Who and his writeup showing up on the YMMV page of an episode where his crimes weren't bad enough to count
Time to change the topic:
There's a plothole inconsistency between the writeup of Angra Mainyu between Zoroastrianism and Other Media, the former using God of Evil at "the antithesis of everything good and just" and the latter using Ultimate Evil. God of Evil is the more accurate one, as despite the name, Ultimate Evil is actually about villains we never see because Nothing Is Scarier. In fact, are there any other writeups that inaccurately pothole to Ultimate Evil?
Edited by KingofNightmares on Jun 17th 2020 at 3:09:18 AM
"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times?"@Sky Cat I looked at them for context. Digimon and Fan Works are misuse, and the writeup at Literature (it's from The Tamuli) straight up needs a rewrite
"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times?"Alright. Give me a bit. I'm busy tomorrow with tests.
Though the tamali entry is something....
The Tamuli: This sequel trilogy reveals Zalasta, Sephrenia's childhood friend, to be an Evil Sorcerer and traitor par excellence''. Having arranged for the massacre of his and Sephrenia's hometown when they were children (resulting in the slaughter of his own family), Zalasta went onto become Styricum's most powerful magician and an integral, behind-the-scenes player in Azash's scheme to Take Over the World. Years later, he joins forces with Cyrgon to instigate revolution in the Tamul Empire, and persuades the Elene peasantry to commit genocide against the Styrics—his own people—in order to harm Sephrenia's goddess, Aphrael. Eventually betraying Cyrgon in order to serve Klæl, Zalasta is responsible for not only tens of thousands of deaths, but for endangering the very existence of the world; when everything falls apart, he makes two final attempts on the lives of Sephrenia and her lover Vanion. Driven by lust for Sephrenia, and loathing of Aphrael, Zalasta is guilty of every crime from high treason to "consorting with ye powers of darkness," and is content to damn the entire world, so long as he gains possession of the woman he wants.
Well that has a lot of potholes.

You what.
Xenu
Hey the site shot down a useful notes page for scientology thanks to the controversy of actually acknoldeing it and giving it credence so why should we approve this.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."