During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yes to the Phantom.
Alright, I finished the book, and after briefly discussing with miraculous, I think President Snow needs to be cut. Here is his entry:
- President Coriolanus Snow, as the overseer of the corrupt Capitol government that created and runs the child-murdering spectacle of the title, commits an insane number of atrocities all in the name of keeping his power. In the first book Snow tortures Seneca Crane because Katniss and Peeta, without his interference at all, figured out how to survive The Hunger Games together and beat the system. In the second book, Catching Fire, he has the Quarter Quell's rules changed to having two previous Hunger Games winners from each district to compete, simply out of spite. He has Katniss's friends tortured or murdered to break her confidence, even forcing her to watch Cinna's beating before the Quarter Quell. Katniss and Peeta got off lucky however as most other Hunger Games winners, Finnick Odair included, were forced by Snow to prostitute themselves out to other Capitol residents. In the final book Mockingjay, Snow firebombs Katniss's home in District 12 and later tries to frame President Coin. He authorizes the painful brainwashing of multiple citizens, one of whom, Peeta, has had his mental faculties destroyed for months, which will affect the way he processes events for life. Possibly his most heinous action occurs during the war between District 13 and the Capitol, where he offers innocent Capitol children shelter in his home only to use them as human shields to protect himself.
The book shows that he cared for his family, with him worrying about their wellbeing a few times and adopting a rose as his symbol to honor his grandmother, who kept a rose garden. The book also shows he had a lover named Lucy Gray whom he did genuinely care for until she found out that he had played a part in the death of one of his friends and ran away from him. He does eschew love at the end of the book, but this is because he is bitter over Lucy leaving him.
Finally, Snow is shown to genuinely care for humanity and believes that the Capitol's regime is right for them, even if he does think they should respect him for what he's doing to them.
However, there is another character in the book who I and miraculous think definitely counts. I'll get up her effortpost as soon as possible.
Definitely cut snow now.
He actually still grows roses now. Apparently he scents himself with it as it reminds him off his mother who died in childbirth and the times he was happy in childhood with her.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Yeah during the war, the capital and him we're bombarded by rebels which caused them to starve and even resort to cannibalism. He believe the hunger games are needed to prevent the rebels/districts from rising again and doing something like that to them again.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Interesting. A cut, and yet it doesn't seem like an Ass Pull as some do.
Yeah, cut Snow.
What Is the Work?
Danger Zone One is an ongoing web comic by Midnight that has practically everything I love: two strong female leads, a buddy cop premise, action, a cyberpunk aesthetic, an anime art style, dark villains, and creativity. I would like it more if it didn’t have gratuitous butt and panty shots. I get that it’s supposed to be like a manga, but I’m not into that kind of stuff, and it grinds the story to a halt at times.
It’s sometime in the future. Pallad City is a cyberpunk crapsack city where crime runs rampant. The only ones to stop this are the Pallad City Police Department (PCPD). Reena Saffron is an idealistic rookie cop who wishes to help those in need. She’s paired up with the experienced, cynical “Maniac” Madison Wynter. Together, the two take down criminal after criminal all while exposing their panties and asses to the reader.
I have two candidates to look through, so let's get started.
Who Is she?
The elusive woman known only as “Miss Bliss” is a criminal on the ShadowNet who makes a living offering her services to others through the black market.
What has she done?
Having engaged in drug trafficking, blackmail, datamining, and the selling of hazardous sex androids in the past, Bliss is introduced in the Fantasy Funland arc. Making a deal with the owner of Fantasy Funland, Dalton Trayer (an obvious Walt Disney expy), who’s park is on the verge of bankruptcy, Bliss organizes a human trafficking operation from inside the park, having young women captured and sold at an auction for their organs. Having already captured three women before nabbing Reena and her friend Haley to add to her collection, Bliss also engages in torture as a past time, gaining pleasure out of whipping her victims in her personal BDSM torture chamber until they break.
Once Madison Wynter arrives to investigate the disappearances, she’s knocked out by Bliss, who decides to get… personal with her. Because she’s PCPD, Bliss has some questions to ask Madison, and will use whatever torture devices she can, like her electric whip, to get the answers out of her… while also gaining sexual pleasure from it all. Meanwhile, Bliss decided to sell the girls earlier than expected, but that means that Reena’s able to take out Bliss’ right-hand thug Sven and escape with the captured girls. While she’s torturing Madison, Bliss figures that instead of selling her body for organs, she’ll just keep her as a personal pet. But Reena and the girls storm in and take her down, arresting her and everyone involved while also shutting down Fantasy Funland.
The next time we see Bliss, she’s in a prisoner van with criminal Mr. Jack. Bliss’ henchwomen, the Combustion Crew, end up freeing her, leading to Bliss plotting with Jack a plan to take down PCPD for good.
Redeeming Qualities?
Zero.
Heinousness?
The world of Danger Zone One is pretty dark. Nothing too crazy yet, but still quite nasty.
Mr. Jack from Chapter 2, while desiring to detonate a bomb that will wipe out six city blocks, has an excuse: he was caught in a factory fire during a costume party that fused the mask he was wearing to his face, and since the city’s mayor was behind the attack, he plans to get revenge on him by showing how corrupt he is. Even his appearance in Chapter 13 shows that he doesn’t quite approve of Bliss’ human trafficking operation. Mayor Neville from the same chapter, despite having started the fire that damaged Jack in order to gather the insurance money for his re-election campaign, is depicted as a bumbling oaf who’s more incompetent than pure evil, but not threatening enough to qualify.
Dr. Hastings from the Nightmare Island arc wants to annihilate mankind and replace them with mutant sharks, has fed about a dozen people to her mutant shark, has killed everybody in her research facility, and even wants to impregnate Reena with her specially crafted shark sperm to produce mutant shark offspring. Thing is, she genuinely cares about her experiments after they’re killed, and she doesn’t get very far in her plan. Plus, she was told to do most of that stuff thanks to her benefactor (who I will discuss later).
And then there’s the audio dramas. Drezz Vargo from the first one might count (he has a long history of fiery crimes; planted a bomb that would’ve destroyed an entire city block; attempts to blow up himself, his client, Reena, and Madison; and is incredibly sadistic), but I feel he might not be heinous enough to warrant an EP. Crime boss Lynn Dradio’s not even worth mentioning, as she does nothing of importance that could breach the heinous standard.
As for the novels, they take place in a separate continuity, so they don’t affect the web comic’s standard. Besides, nobody really counts in those due to heinousness, as the villains in there are bad, but not as bad as they could be given the resources. Maybe the dude from the first book, but even then, it's a bit of a stretch.
Even if her arc’s not yet complete, Bliss still does enough to qualify (human trafficking, torture, extreme sadism, etc.) and while the girls she caught were only her first round of shipments, that still meant she was willing to sell all five of them for money. Plus her list of past crimes, her love of torturing other women for pleasure, pushes her as a keep who looks to have zero redeeming qualities in future stories.
Conclusion
I think she’s a keep.
Considering that Mr. Jack threatened to destroy six city blocks. Though to be fair, Vargo has lesser resources than Jack, so maybe he does warrant an EP.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Jun 8th 2020 at 10:50:36 AM
It's Spooky Month!I bought the book way too late. I only got as far as the first chapter. Haha. Based on what falcon says (and it is not like it is surprising either though),
to keeping Snow (who throughout the book’s third person narration is referred to as his first name Coriolanus).
I am of the opinion that the film version’s brief interactions with his granddaughter are not enough to redeem him or keep him from counting. That said, this book is very likely getting an adaptation and will probably carry over his book traits that shall result in his cut here. Therefore, it matters not.
EDIT: I am considering auditioning for the part in the event I finish the book and there is an open audition process for it. In the event that I get the role, I will have to recuse myself from discussion. Haha.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jun 8th 2020 at 11:15:04 AM
Funny enough, Tigris is also revealed to be Coriolanus’s (Snow’s) cousin in the book too.
@falcon From the sound of things, he still cares about her deeply. That said, how does it impact when he discards Tigris as a designer later on for not being pretty enough anymore (without killing her of course)?
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jun 8th 2020 at 11:33:29 AM

BTW, I've just got done playing with the Shield Hero crossover campaign in Grand Summoners and I have this to say about it, no new keepers.
IPP Wick Check created.