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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#216877: Jun 7th 2020 at 6:36:28 PM

@43 geez I was just making a suggestion. Plus I want to get Lighty's opinion before making changes.

Edited by nwotyzal on Jun 7th 2020 at 6:38:19 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#216878: Jun 7th 2020 at 6:44:44 PM

I doubt if he cares and the page isn't locked so he can revert changes if he doesn't like it... you gave a solution, I disagreed and gave you my stance. That's it.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#216879: Jun 7th 2020 at 6:51:52 PM

[up]Did I sound abrasive to you, because I think I sounded abrasive and I really didn't mean it. Also, I made an edit that I think looks good.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#216880: Jun 7th 2020 at 7:18:06 PM

OK so I got kind of bored and decided to work on a character that has been on the back burner. Emperors did an EP of him back in 2017 but new information has been given that makes him a much easier keep.

What’s the Work?

The Phantom Manor is Disneyland Paris’ equivalent to the Haunted Mansion. It takes place in Ravenswood Manor which is part of Frontier Town. In it, the riders meet the Bride, the ghost of a woman who’s husband never showed up for her wedding, and the Phantom, the ghost that killed her husband. The identity of the Phantom was unknown for most of the ride’s existence but in 2019, it was refurbished with a more coherent story told both within the ride and in supplementary materials.

Who is The Phantom and what does he do?

The identity of the Phantom is Henry Ravenswood, one of the founders of Thunder Mesa, which would become Frontier Town. In the past he discovered a vein of gold in Big Thunder Mountain and created a mining town around it, ignoring the warnings from the natives that mining in the mountain would anger the mythical Thunderbird. The town thrived and Henry created the Ravenswood Manor for his family. Henry had a daughter named Melanie who had a lot of suitors, however all four of her suitors died in bizarre ways and while the deaths were ruled as accidents, the locals suspected foul play due to them all being Melanie’s suitors. Sometime later there was a massive earthquake, caused either by the angered Thunderbird or a mining accident which destroyed a large portion of the town and killed Henry and his wife, causing the town to fall into ruin since the gold was lost as well. Shortly after the disaster Melanie was scheduled to marry another man who supposedly intended to take her away from the town, something which angered Henry in life. Henry returned as the Phantom, who lured the groom into the attic and hung him with a noose. Melanie, not knowing what happened to her love, refused to leave and waited for her groom to return, and continued to wait as a ghost known as the Bride.

Over the years there were various reports of apparitions in the manor and three expeditions were sent to investigate. The first group was so frightened that they skipped town entirely, the second group simply never returned, and the third group, composed of scholars, reported of no supernatural presence, which the citizens of the town doubted. In the ride itself, the Phantom acts as the host, inviting the guests in where they see paintings that stretch to reveal the fates of the suitors and saying that the guests are doomed. He then gives them a "challenge" to escape the manor and looms over them while holding the noose used to kill the groom (in the original version he held the actual hanged corpse). In the next hallway we see various paintings, one of which definitively reveals the identity of the Phantom as Henry, and another of him in a duel, which flashes to show him cheating and shooting his opponent in the back. He’s next seen watching ghosts have a macabre wedding party and he laughs as he and the Bride look on. He then seemingly sends the guests into an open grave where they encounter the various ghosts that were buried on the manor grounds and then they go to Phantom Canyon where the ghost who died in the earthquake are at. The Phantom appears one last time, cackling while standing next to a grave and a noose before the ride ends.

Mitigating Factors

The big thing with him is his relationship with his daughter. He’s very possessive of her, not wanting her to leave the manor, to the point that he may have actually trapped her spirit in the manor. He’s completely apathetic and possibly happy about her despair, looking back at her through her vanity mirror as she cries, cackling while watching the fake wedding party (likely created by him to mock Melanie), and reports of the hauntings include him laughing at the same time she’s heard singing sadly. He also didn’t care for his wife as he was a known womanizer.

Heinousness?

I’m not really sure if he should be compared to Constance but I think that he stands out enough when compared to her. They both killed roughly the same number of people in life and while Constance became a ghostly serial killer, Henry seems to enjoy killing people who enter the mansion and also inflicted a lot of emotional pain on his own daughter. I should mention that the suitors (aside from the last one) were given Punny Names that tied to how they died but their murders are treated seriously in the materials that discuss them and he’s otherwise played dead straight.

Conclusion?

I say yes.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#216881: Jun 7th 2020 at 8:41:01 PM

Based on the EP, [tup] to the Phantom. Ironic that we got the FS one up first.

[down]To the point that that entry was retooled as the film one.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jun 7th 2020 at 9:04:59 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#216882: Jun 7th 2020 at 8:46:47 PM

[tup]Phantom (I thought we did discuss him previously)

[up]I remeber we had a comic book version of Syndrome up before the original was found to be a keeper.

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#216883: Jun 7th 2020 at 8:51:19 PM

[tup] The Phantom/Henry Ravenswood.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#216884: Jun 7th 2020 at 9:09:36 PM

The FS one? EDIT: Nevermind I figured out that you were talking about Fanscription

Edited by papyru30 on Jun 7th 2020 at 10:18:47 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#216886: Jun 8th 2020 at 12:10:40 AM

@ nwotyzal Like I said, there was an EP in 2017 but the 2019 refurbishment changed his story significantly.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#216888: Jun 8th 2020 at 12:44:46 AM

[tup] to Arcanon and the Phantom. [tdown] to Music!Palpatine, and yeah, cut Music!106.

Kitsu7 Since: Feb, 2020
#216889: Jun 8th 2020 at 2:20:57 AM

[tup]Ravenswood

Yeah it makes sense to cut music monsters that are listing of Canon crimes but Man on the Internet Dimentio is more than that. It focuses on his personality and motives and as someone already said adds a Straw Nihilist element to it not present in the game.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#216890: Jun 8th 2020 at 3:02:29 AM

[tup] to Lord Arcanon and Henry Ravenswood.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#216891: Jun 8th 2020 at 3:54:46 AM

Imp's potholes done. I used The Butcher for Petiot; "squealed like a pig" for Gryle; and The Evils of Free Will around "grew disdainful towards them" instead of Final Solution.

MovieFan2000 Since: Jan, 2016
#216892: Jun 8th 2020 at 7:24:10 AM

So we have to cut Music Nosferatu and Music Valak as well ?

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#216893: Jun 8th 2020 at 7:28:26 AM

No? The latter puts more perspective on the character and getting into their mind. They also have their making deals with other nuns and threatening to make Ed a worthy prospect in Hell.

tropineasily Currently Suspended Since: Sep, 2018
Currently Suspended
#216894: Jun 8th 2020 at 7:34:57 AM

I'd like to suggest a new addition to The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes came out a while ago and features the character of Dr. Volumnia Gaul, the first Gamemaker and thus Greater-Scope Villain of the series. She's also the creator of the muttations, as an amoral scientist who does dangerous and repulsive experiments on animals and later humans, turning them into mindless killing machines. And while she does listen to the complaints of the mentors, she completely ignores any criticism against the Hunger Games themselves, only accepting criticism to improve the life condition of the tributes and mentors so they don't die before the games start. After the death of Arachne Crane, having her throat sliced by her tribute, who she relentlessly teased, Gaul doesn't show the least bit of concern, in-fact, she chastises Coriolanus Snow and Clemensia Dovecote for not "taking the project seriously" and lets her experimental snakes bite Clemensia, which paralizes and hospitalizes her, with later scenes implying that the venom mutates her into a snake person, which she is horrified by, then nonchalantly calls Snow out on covering for Clemensia. All in all, she's a person so repulsive that even Snow agrees that she deserves to be stopped, until he had his Start of Darkness.

Edited by tropineasily on Jun 8th 2020 at 7:35:55 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#216895: Jun 8th 2020 at 7:37:09 AM

Sorry, that work's actually reserved by Falcontalons. If you want to stick around for discussion, though, that's fine.

Which I see was actually June 2. Falcon, ready to discuss?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#216896: Jun 8th 2020 at 7:37:36 AM

I think ~falcontalons was discussing that book. Though yes, it's been over 2 weeks.

[nja] by 27 seconds [lol]

Edited by ACW on Jun 8th 2020 at 10:38:39 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#216897: Jun 8th 2020 at 7:44:44 AM

Yeah if you wouldn't mind blanking that post it would be appreciated. Falcon... you got anything for us there?

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#216898: Jun 8th 2020 at 8:00:01 AM

I'll vote on the phantom in a second.

As for the Hunger Games prequel, I'm almost done; I'll try to finish it today. Sorry about that; it's just that my order for the book was delayed.

Edited by falcontalons on Jun 8th 2020 at 8:14:52 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#216899: Jun 8th 2020 at 8:36:45 AM

In EXA_PICO is their something that looks really off about the picture or is it just me.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#216900: Jun 8th 2020 at 8:40:42 AM

Is the guy in the left panel supposed to be slicing apart the person in the right? Yeah, I have no clue man.


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