During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I haven't seen the newer seasons of The Flash (2014) so I can't really give an opinion. I do know however that making an effort post is compulsory because you need to explain in detail why this person should qualify and if they ticks off all of the requirements. So I guess someone who has seen the new seasons should probably do that. I honestly would if I had seen the newer seasons.
Well I didn't see the need since most of them are clear no-no's.
The only one that could possibly be worth discussing would be Carver.
If there are enough people who want me to produce a full post about him, I guess I could do that.
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% ScandinavianYou know what? I said I'd be doing my last effortpost once it's time to discuss Bug Fables but screw it: I've been building up a potential Eobard Thawne effortpost for a while now and once his arc is finally, decisively, for real finished with, I'll do that effortpost as my last one.
And yeah, it's going to be huge because he gets up to a shitload of villainy over the course of two different shows and a large crossover special, and there's just so much ground to recover regarding redeeming qualities and if he truly bucks them and the like.
Here's another quote.
Bianca: Uh, um, won't that kill them?
The Sorceress: (laughs) That doesn't matter! As long as I can still collect their wings!
Bianca: What?! All this time, you only wanted them for their wings?!
The Sorceress: Of course, you ignorant girl. I need them for a spell, so I can live forever!
Bianca: Uh-uh, wait, wait a second, a s-a spell?!
The Sorceress: What did you think I was going to do with all those dragons; open a zoo?
Bianca: You said just keeping them in our world was enough. You never said you had to kill them!
The Sorceress: I don't have to kill them. It just stops them from wriggling so much.
Bianca: You're terrible! I can't believe I ever listened to you! (walks away)
The Sorceress: Stupid, insolent brat. I'll take care of her as soon as I finish off that dragon.
No to the Judge.
Anyway here is a new EP:
What is the work?
The 1967 Spider-Man cartoon, well remembered for silly memes at this point. The first season was actually pretty silly, featuring many of Spidey's rogues gallery, who usually just commit petty crimes. The second season, everything changed, most of the traditional rogues gallery phased out, the new villains were added (they all have green skin for some strange reason), the stories got weird, way more sci-fi and fantasy based, the budget got cut, the backgrounds got trippy and really jazzy 60s music was added to to the show's soundtrack. The third season had no budget, so it had trouble telling good stories at all.
Who is the Master Technician? What has he done?
The Master Technician was a scientist hired to help build a new nuclear power plant but was fired when he came up with some really out-there ideas on what radiation can do. The Master Technician sneaks into the nuclear plant and starts using radiation in all sorts of bizarre sci-fi ways. He creates an Earthquake that loosens the foundations of Manhattan and then he demands that he paid 10 million dollars, given amnesty, and be allowed to construct his own reactor. When the cops blow off his demands, he uses radiation to create anti-gravity rays and lift Manhattan off the ground into the air. Now he wants 100 million dollars, amnesty and permission to build his own reactor or he will crash Manhattan into the ground. Anyway long story short, Spidey eventually confronts the Master Technician, who attacks him with special radiation designed to neutralize his powers. Despite that handicap, Spidey is able to fight the Master Technician, with the Master Technician accidentally destroys his control panel with a laser gun trying to kill Spidey. This causes Manhattan to fall, with the Master Technician trying to kill Spidey to stop him from saving Manhattan, not caring if he dies in the process. Spidey defeats the Master Technician and is able to use the remaining controls to stop Manhanttan from falling and gently putting it back where it belongs.
The Master Technician returns in season 3, with an episode that reuses a lot of animation from his first appearance, he is now called the Radiation Specialist but is pretty clearly the same guy. He takes over the same nuclear plant (again?!) and uses radiation to turn almost everyone in Manhattan into his mind-controlled slaves (only strong-willed people able to resist), with the Master Technician using a robot car to lure Spidey out of the city. The Master Technician than he uses radiation to lift up Manhattan again (running out of ideas out there buddy) to protect his new kingdom's borders. The Master Technician allows gets mad that his slaves are not delivering Spidey to him fast enough and cuts the power to the city for a bit, just to be petty. Anyway, Spidey's confrontation with the Master Technician is the same from the last time, only this time the Master Technician uses radiation to try to brainwash Spidey. Anyway, Spidey defeats him again and saves Manhattan through the power of reused animation.
Is he heinous by the standards of the work?
Okay, so the first season is pretty silly, with most of Spidey's rogues gallery just being petty criminals, even Green Goblin is just a petty criminal here. The only exception is the first season is Dr. Octopus, who tries to blow up part of the city just to prove he can and was willing to drop a WMD on NYC just to force Spidey to let him escape.
By the second season the heinous standard goes up, there are still petty thieves, but there is also a villain who tries to destroy NYC with a blob monster, a vine monster goes on a rampage on NYC and there is a different mad scientist in one of the few season 3 episodes that were not just reused animation, where he had an atomic pile and planned to blow up NYC. There is also those weird episodes that reused animation and plots from Rocket Robinhood, I am not sure how those fit in. However, these cases are the exception, not the rule, and let's face it, crashing Manhattan into the ground, would not only kill everyone in Manhattan but a lot of other people too.
Any Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?
Nah, his FE is typical Mad Scientist stuff (the governor laughed at me, the idiots who built this plant laughed at me!) that in no one justifies his actions. Besides that, there is nothing. I also think he is played straight, despite the fact that him being able to make radiation do anything makes no sense.
Final Verdict?
I think he may count, despite this show's goofy reputation.
Edited by Overlord on Jun 6th 2020 at 6:17:59 AM
Some more Discworld quotes that might work.
The Fifth Elephant, for Wolfgang von Uberwald (it'd make a good For the Evulz one at any rate):
- "Don"t try anything, Angua," said Wolf, grinning happily. "Or else I"ll break [Carrot's] arm. Oh, perhaps I"ll break his arm anyway! Yes!"Vimes even heard the crack.
(Skip a line)
- "Ah! And he has other bones!" said Wolfgang, pushing Carrot away. He glanced towards Angua. "Get back, get back. Or I"ll hurt him some more! No, I shall hurt him some more anyway!"
—
Night Watch (Discworld) has Vimes' summary on Carcer Dun:
- Vimes, on Carcer Dun: "Who knew what evil lurked in the hearts of men? A copper, that's who. (...)You saw how close men lived to the beast. You realized that people like Carcer were not mad. They were incredibly sane. They were simply men without a shield. They'd looked at the world and realized that all the rules didn't have to apply to them, not if they didn't want them to. They weren't fooled by all the little stories. They shook hands with the beast."
Weak yea on MT for now. I like the hell out of the Carcer quote, though.
I'm not so sure Thawne's fondness for Nora has gone away. He's a repeated Troll who genuinely did try to save her, and he does mention he misses her even as he mocks Barry. While mocking Barry about her death is a seriously sickening Kick the Dog moment, he considers Barry his Arch-Enemy and will do practically anything to get under his skin. Yeah, he's a bastard and if they double down on him not caring about her he'll probably count, but I don't think a bit of Evil Gloating invalidates the fact he genuinely tried to save her or the fact he does seem to miss her.
Well, this fic is essentially over, so I thought I’d do an effort post for it.
What is the work?
Nymph and the Corrupted Miraculous
, a For Want Of A Nail fic where Marinette is paralysed before the series begins.
Who is the character? What have they done? Xue Ying/Serpentina/Nihilumbra is an embittered former Guardian of the Miraculous and the main source of problems in the AU. After being failed by the Guardians, she is implied to have engineered the downfall of the Order, with the help of an unknowing Master Fu. Re-emerging 150 years later, she attacks an unsuspecting Fu and steals all but one of the Miraculous in the Miracle Box. She then proceeds to perform a ritual to corrupt the Miraculous for evil use, before distributing the Black Cat ring to Adrien Agreste, taking advantage of his insecurities to make him into her loyal minion, who proceeds to terrorise Paris. After seeing the chaos Lila Rossi causes as a Champion, she recruits her to be her second minion, Volpina, who she encourages to make Nymph look bad by making it appear she stole the Mona Lisa. After learning that Adrien’s father, Gabriel Agreste has the Miraculous Grimoire, she orders him to bring it to her, creating a series of events that breaks the boy further. Following his defeat, she disregards him as a failure, before corrupting Sabrina Raincomprix into Drone, and entering the fray as Serpentina to terrorise Paris and recover the remaining Miraculous. Following her initial defeat, she unearths the evil Miraculous known as the Null, using it to become Nihilumbra, despite the consequences of using it. She then proceeds to launch one final attack on Paris, raising an army of the dead to tear the city apart on Heroes’ Day.
Do the have any Freudian Excuses/mitigating factors? She was kicked out of the Guardians after being exposed as a girl in disguise, though it’s hinted that that may have been her way of seeing it and she simply wasn’t good enough.
Do they meet the heinousness standard? With Hawk Moth non-existent and Lila Rossi as her dragon, Xue Ying is the greatest evil in the setting.
Verdict: As the greatest evil in the setting, and without any redeeming qualities that aren’t faked, Xue Ying is the greatest problem faced by Team Miraculous.
Trying to rip a city apart and the most heinous of the other villains aren't present? Yes to Xue Ying.
Now, here's from a comic...
What's the work?
The Chill is a comic from the Vertigo Crime line...featuring a series of murders in New York. And the man behind them? Cormac Flaherty.
Who is Cormac Flaherty?
From Ireland, Cormac is actually over a century old, having once heard of old legends of the Druids, particularly of the women who carried the power of The Chill. The Chill was used in ritual sacrifices, with the women using it to 'freeze' the men they had sex with, who would be sacrificed and their souls offered to the gods. Cormac married a woman with the latent power but could not use it. He abused her horribly until the day their daughter Arlana was born. Cormac? Murdered his wife and hanged her corpse to resemble a suicide. Arlana was raised and when she became a woman, she fell in love with Martin Cleary...when they made love, the Chill activated and Martin froze. Cormac was delighted and got out a ritual spear, but Arlana lied and said Martin was gone....over the next decades? Cormac leads Arlana from place to place and every nine years embarks on a serial killing spree. Using Arlana as a Honey Trap with a Glamour so she resembles someone's fantasy, she lures them in, has sex with them to use the Chill, and Cormac emerges to murder them, with his spear and by earth, sea or sky (beating them to death with a rock,drowning them, throwing them off a building)...and harvesting their souls for his and Arlana's immortalities.
With the murders resuming in modern day, with a gleeful Cormac killing several victims, Martin emerges, now an old man who informs the cops what's going on. Upon realizing Martin is involved, an enraged Cormac savagely beats his daughter and targets Martin, as well as anyone he's told. First going for a professor, using Arlana in the guise of a prostitute, Cormac gores him, shoves a rat in his mouth and pushes him in front of a train. Targeting a priest with Arlana disguised as a little boy, Cormac beats him to death with a paperweight, and tries to have the investigative agent seduced with Arlana in form of his wife (rape by fraud)...the agent manages to see through it and escape, Cormac deciding to kill Martin, sending Arlana after him. However, Martin manages to get the better of Cormac and engages him as said agent shows up...unwilling to let her father kill Martin, Arlana stabs him from behind with his own spear and uses the ritual on him to deliver his soul...while also empowering Martin with the Chill, restoring his life and youth. The two depart, with Martin now the one with the Chill to seduce others, while Arlana performs the ritual killings to keep them immortal.
Heinousness?
Cormac is a pretty horrific serial killer, murdering tons of people. He kills a bunch of people every nine years, prostitutes his daughter for it, murdered his wife, abuses her, and kills a bunch of people on camera, harvesting their souls to devour for his immortality. Pass, easily.
Mitigating Qualities?
None. Cormac explicitly cares nothing for anyone but his own immortality. And I mean explicitly. He beats Arlana, decrying her as a 'useless hoor' when he's in a bad mood, threatens to kill her and prostitutes her out for his murders. Not a very complex character here, and he's hijacking old, forbidden magics for his own ends.
Conclusion?
an easy pass.
Leaning yes on Flaherty, except..."Martin now the one with the Chill to seduce others, while Arlana performs the ritual killings to keep them immortal."
Here We Go Again!? Granted, Martin and Arlana don't have the Abusive Parents thing, but...

Alright, since nobody seems willing to do a post on The Flash (2014) Season 6, I guess there is no way around it for me. I'm not gonna do a full effortpost on anybody, since I don't think anybody qualifies. If you disagree and wish to see a full effortpost on someone particular, I will oblige if enough people speak in favour of it.
Other than that, I got nothing. No Villain of the Week really stood out that much. I mean there is Godspeed, apparently he will play a big role in the future, but so far there is not much to work with.
Edited by Forenperser on Jun 6th 2020 at 2:09:42 PM
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian