During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Here are my write-ups for Clive Hoofer and the Golden Claw leader in Silenced By the Lamb. Sorry that they have to have long write-ups, but they have quite a laundry list of crimes:
- Clive Hoofer is the true mastermind behind Dawn Bellwether's administration. Having once been an abusive prison guard to predators, he was hired by Bellwether to concoct the Night Howler scheme to turn predators savage and bring both of them into power. During the mayorial election, he tries to have Bellwether's opponent assassinated and when this fails, he sends Bellwether and his supporters to fire Night Howler pellets to various predators in Zootopia and cause them to go savage, such as causing one of Gazelle's tiger dancers to go savage and releasing a savage Bobcat in Little Rodentia. At the same time, he caused a wolf to go savage and maul a koala publicist in his office, which he calmly listens to on the other side. He also keeps the savage predators of Zootopia in containment, in which he surgically implants tracker chips in them and physically assaults a savage Nick Wilde with a baton when he tears at his coat sleeve. He then attempts to pass the Safe Act that would've expanded his administration's power to near dictatorial levels and when this fails, he proposes the Happytown Initiative that would've relocated the predators and had them exterminated, which he tries to initiate early when he begins to face arrest.
- An unnamed fox leads the Golden Claw, a predator supremacist group that commits terrorist acts to further their cause. Upon recruiting a reluctant Lucas Canisson and arriving to city hall, he unleashes Night Howler toxins on the prey citizens, making them easier to kill. He and his forces then capture the city hall, where he initially allows one of his bear thugs to attack the city council members, but then hits him with a Night Howler pellet, causing him to go savage and maul the council members to death, before ordering Lucas to subject the aforementioned Hoofer to the same fate. He then makes his way to the water plant of Zootopia, planning to poison the water reservoirs with Night Howler toxin to cause all prey citizens to go savage. Once accomplished, he plans to separate the predators from the rest of Zootopia and allow the savage prey to kill each other and destroy the city, while taking in the suriviving prey as livestock. When a crowd of predator citizens protest against his plan, he drives a truck into the crowd, uncaring that he could've severely injured or kill them. Upon encountering Judy Hopps in the water plant, he orders Lucas to kill her, but when he refuses to do so, he pulls out his own gun, ready to kill both of them.
Edited by DrUnknown on Jun 5th 2020 at 2:31:01 AM
Alright, here is the write up for the Seer. It's in spoilers since the Seer's evil is a genuine plot twist.
The malicious and borderline omniscient Seer is a virus that was created to infect and destroy the entire internet and ended wanting to destroy even more. Upon realizing that humanity would survive the internet's destruction and that there was a layer of cyberspace out of its reach, the Seer would manipulate Crystal into creating a body he could take over and usurp Crystal's conquest of the sprite's layer of cyberspace. After gaining complete control of both the cyber and real world he then planned to create a body in the real world just so he could see the look of fear on humanity's faces before destroying both worlds and spread out into the cosmos to search for and destroy all life in the universe to sate his bloodlust. In a world full of sprites trying to overcome the flaws built into them, the Seer gleefully embraced his lust for destruction.
Edited by crankers on Jun 5th 2020 at 5:32:52 AM
@G: Having coincidentally watched American Ultra last night and anticipated you, specifically, proposing him? No, I don't think he counts. The movie's not entirely a comedy (and Yates is bad enough—try having a small town nuked) but Yates is treated more like Michael from The Office instead a legit pure evil villain and it badly affects how we're supposed to see him. The dude's a raging, whining, immature Sir Swears-a-Lot manchild with enough weird comedic asides that they start to pile up—just one example is a genuinely tense scene where Yates has the stoner hero's girlfriend hostage is interrupted when said stoner misinterprets Yates' sarcasm and give way to a comic Literal-Minded exchange between the two of them for a while.
Yates is a prick and debatably heinous enough, but I'm sorry, he's not tonally there. And given exactly how recurring your issue with that is, G, I think the better option would be to stop proposing from comedies period.
I do not believe he's come through the thread as of yet. So long as the premise is serious enough to facilitate a CM, you should be fine bringing him up.
I've seen Becky, so if anyone wants the deets on it and whether one of the Grown Ups crew might be coming through the thread in two weeks, hit me up via PMs!
'Yes' to Charles, but cut Havik.
Aight, here's my final pending write-ups/rewrites for now,
- The Mad Titan Thanos is a destruction loving tyrant determined to conquer as much of the galaxy as possible and annihilate the rest. A brutal warlord who has wiped out entire races, Thanos butchered Gamora's homeworld and enslaved her as one of his "children," performing horrible experiments on them all to make them his killing machines. In his quest for the Cosmic Seed in Season 1, Thanos tries to annihilate a space station, tortures Peter Quill, and throws the lives of his own armies away in a mad scramble to use the Seed to terraform Earth and use it as a living weapon to conquer the galaxy. Having the Klyntar race and tortured many of its species into insanity, Thanos tries to spread the Klyntar across the galaxy to turn billions into Thanos's puppets, and later attempts to raze the surface of his homeworld of Titan when its inhabitants refuse to cow to him. Thanos's evil runs so deep that he laughs in glee when forced to relive his atrocities, and proudly brags about his hand in the deaths of Drax and Groot's families.
- Ronan the Accuser is a fanatical, rogue Kree general seeking to cleanse the galaxy of all that he deems impure, and serves as the most recurring threat of Season 1. Having carried out Thanos's will in incinerating Groot's race and killing Drax's family, Ronan ran Gladiator Games and slave camps until he was taken down by the Guardians of the Galaxy. Revived by Nebula, Ronan quickly takes to abusing and even attempting to kill the woman despite her loyalty, and immediately attempts to destroy the entire planet of Xandar. Later forcing Black Bolt to try to destroy his own people simply because Ronan finds them repulsive and attempting to kickstart a galaxy-wide war by killing hundreds of his own people and framing others for it, Ronan plans to obtain the Cosmic Seed and use it in a genocidal crusade against the galaxy, and nearly annihilates the entire Earth when the Seed is stolen from him by Thanos.
- J'son of Spartax is the abusive, treacherous father of Peter Quill, using any and all resources at his disposal in his vision of ultimate power and order across the galaxy. Attempting to orchestrate a war between Spartax and Asgard for decades, J'son allies with Thanos and hands his own son Peter off to him to be tortured in exchange for the promise of Asgard's destruction. J'son used his time as Emperor of Spartax to oppress and brutalize the populace, taking any dissenters and torturing them into members of his cult of loving followers, the Universal Believers, who J'son uses throughout Season 2 to carry out a variety of crimes in his name, while sacrificing even the loyal Mantis with casual indifference. Upon achieving godhood when merging with Adam Warlock, J'son dubs himself "the Magus" and begins targeting the homeworlds and loved ones of the Guardians of the Galaxy, hoping to destroy however many planets it takes before the galaxy worships him as a god. With a knack for trying to take hundreds of people down with him when beaten and cowardly using even children as hostages to get his way, J'son contrasted his noble son Peter in every way imaginable.
- The Serpent is Odin's brother, an ancient evil god who seeks ultimate dominion over Asgard and the destruction of all else in the universe. Orchestrating the kidnapping of hundreds of people, plunging them into comas and replacing them with his robotic Darkhawks from a prison Odin trapped him in, Serpent tries to blow up Asgard out of spite before escaping and making Odin watch as he nearly kills his son Thor. Serpent soon enough takes control of the World Tree, using it to spreads spores that drain the life out of anything they consume, with which Serpent hopes to consume the life force of every planet and species across the cosmos until he reigns supreme as the only thing left alive, using his own family as living batteries to power himself up.
G... with Scraggle's note here, I seriously, seriously need to hear steps you are going to take here. It started with mistaking the tones of comedy villains but it's snowballed into misreading moral agency, inability to tell when someone has an Alas, Poor Villain, bulking up deeds to have a character seem heinous enough and ignoring Freudian Excuses we need to know how these problems are going to be mitigated. People have had to rewatch things and no one likes doing a "Gotcha"... it feels nasty and we don't want to put you down but as Scraggle said, I think stepping back from comedies is probably a good idea. We've tried it and it hasn't proven a good mix but what other actions can you take so we can start trusting your effort posts again because I hate saying "I'm abstaining because you did it."
Sorry to hear that Bullman.
Yes to Hordak, the Zooptopia fanfic villains, Dr. Charles Le Blanc.
Abstain on Andrews.
Cut the Star Wars duo and no to Mustache, proposing from comedic works can be dicey.
Would anyone mind if a propose a villain from the 1967 Spider-Man show, a lot of people dismiss it as a goofy Super Friends level show, but the second season is somewhat darker than the first. The third season is so low budget it can barely tell any sort of story well.
I'm kind of curious. I considered doing an EP for a couple of villains. The problem is, the villains I wanted to talk about were lifted directly from a few episodes of Rocket Robin Hood, which I haven't watched.
And I'm not talking about "Oh, they reused a couple of character designs or it's a crossover". No, I mean the show literally took the episodes from Rocket Robin Hood, wrote a few scenes to justify Spidey's presence, pasted him into the action scenes over the main characters, and barely changed the rest of the script. It's weird.
Just rewatched season 3 of Castlevania and I am so bothered by this character not being listed that I feel I have to EP him.
Who is the Judge and what does he do?
He is the local authority of the village in which Trevor Belmont, and Sypha stay in. In reality, he is a serial killer of children who lies to children about delicious apples on the tree. The way in which children die is very gruesome; they fall into a trap hole, and impale themselves on the spikes. He later collects their clothes as trophies. He also has the other villain, Prior Sala, die like this when Sala stabs him.
Heinous?
This is the problem. We have the Bishop who burned an innocent woman as a witch. We have Dracula who wanted to destroy humanity. And of course, the aforementioned Prior Sala who wanted to resurrect Dracula (he doesn't count only because of Moral Agency issues). But serial child-killing in such a gruesome manner I say can push him. Remember, we included Neb from Baldur's Gate who also was just a Serial Killer. I say Judge is a different kind of the monster and I can't picture him getting any worse.
Verdict?
I would say keep, but I will totally understand (and won't be surprised) if he gets downvoted. I had to EP him because I could not handle it any longer.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!Well I guess Scraggle, Lighty and 43110 have all made good points on those subject (so much for trying to propose Adrian Yates). Though I did managed to get a few characters from comedic work approved (such as The Duke from Solar Opposites and the Future Man duo). Perhaps it will be a good idea if I just take a break from proposing candidates for a while (at least until I feel like I am ready to propose candidates again).
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff

To elaborate on Wolfgang, he doesn't just hunt people and start a war, he also slaughters a tower of Clacks staff, uses Inigo Skimmers corpse for a plot, beats Carrot senseless and then starts breaking his limbs even when it serves no purpose (I think this would make a good quote, but I lent the book to dad so I can't get the passage yet), then re-emerges in the final part of the book to savage Vimes and co, killing an Igor, wounding a dwarf and disembowelling a horse even though it puts him in direct danger.
He does have a coconspirator that tries to engineer the war, but said coconspirator is a Tragic Villain and horribly misguided. Wolfgang? For the Evulz.
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