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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#216551: Jun 5th 2020 at 11:57:57 AM

So, do we want to split the entries up?

  • Shao Kahn:
    • Old timeline:...
    • New timeline:...

I can do that if we want for the Big 4.

EDIT: Here's a change: Old!Frost wasn't a CM like New!Frost is.

[down]I think I know what you're referring to.

Edited by ACW on Jun 5th 2020 at 2:59:07 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#216552: Jun 5th 2020 at 11:58:38 AM

Yeah, bout that....wait for the discussion

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#216553: Jun 5th 2020 at 11:58:54 AM

[up][up] I personally don't feel like the entries are long enough to warrant splitting them up (at least until the upcoming discussion on Aftermath), though I'm fine if we do split it up like that.

Edited by DrUnknown on Jun 5th 2020 at 11:59:22 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#216554: Jun 5th 2020 at 12:02:40 PM

Yeah, I think it's better to leave the MK writeups as they are (god I hate continuity reboots, just stick with a basic thread)

Edited by nwotyzal on Jun 5th 2020 at 12:06:02 PM

Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#216555: Jun 5th 2020 at 12:30:06 PM

Okay, time for another bad B movie Complete Monster (did search to make sure no one had called dibs and this movie was barely even mentioned on TV Tropes):

What is the Alligator X?

Also known as Xtinction: Predator X, is a Syfy Channel Original movie about a cloned Pliosaurus loose in a swamp, as well as a real estate scheme by the mad scientist who created it. 

Who is Dr. Charles Le Blanc and What have they Done?

Charles Le Blanc is the film's main antagonist, played by Mark Sheppard. After being banned from teaching for his genetic experiments, Charles would clone a Pliosaurus and set it loose in the swamp. Needing land with a proper salt concentration for his monster to survive, he hires a pair of psychopathic rednecks named Larry and Barry to kidnap people and feed them to his monster so he can buy up their property after they 'go missing'. By the beginning of the film his body count is already three. His monster also continues to devour people left and right, but Charles doesn't care in the slightest. He also has his ex-wife Laura's father (simply named Pappy) kidnapped so he can force him to sign over his land as part of the scheme (though if he stays missing, he gets it anyway by buying it from the bank). Despite all the deaths his monster has already cause, he fully intends to let the monster reproduce and overrun the swamp with more of them.

When the Sheriff, Tim Richards comes to investigate Laura and two other people being kidnapped, Charles threatens to have his connections ruin his life if he tries to arrest him.

After finding out Larry and Barry killed Pappy before he could sign it over, he has Tim's brother Henry used as a hostage to force Laura to sign over her father's land or watch him be fed to his monster...then orders Larry and Barry to feed them both to the monster anyway and orders his former hostages killed to cover up the incident.

When Barry (Larry having been killed by his monster) fails to capture them, he has his other minion, Laura's former friend Froggy, kill Barry for his failure and bring them to him so he can use them as bait for X.

After his minions are all killed, Charles holds Mandy hostage to stop the group from destroying the sonar device before throwing her to the monster anyway and tries to make them watch as it eats her alive, only to meet his end at the jaws of his own monster when Tim throws him in to distract it and save her.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

While Charles blames people for banning him from teaching for his actions, it's more or less stated he was doing illegal animal experiments as why he was actually banned and implied he was never a good person to begin with.It is stated he may have once enjoyed teaching, but that really doesn't justify anything he does.

He presents himself as doing things for the great good, but in the end his motive rant makes it clear all this is to feed his own God Complex rather than any benevolent action.

He does object to Pappy's death, but only because it happened before he could get him to sign and all but certainly intended to have him fed to X after he was no longer useful, as he had to other people, just like he did to Laura when she signed. 

One of his presumed victims did survive...completely improbably, given she had her arm torn off by the monster and somehow didn't die of blood loss, but that doesn't change the fact he fully intended for it. I also feel he stands out a bit from the generic 'mad scientist' villain in these movies due to the real estate scam aspect, that the main target of his actions is his own ex-wife, and having a bit more of a 'hands on' role in his monster's murders than most.

He also doesn't seem to care much about Predator X as a living thing as much as a sign of what he personally can accomplish, as while he knows she's dying, he's more interested in making sure she properly reproduces to continue his schemes than her personally. There's no real indication he actually cares about her beyond that.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Larry and Barry are nasty pieces of work, being gleeful murderers and Barry is explicitly a rapist, but Charles is completely complacent in everything they do, ordering most of it, and the few objections to their actions he has are due to them doing things too quickly and causing his plans problems than any actual qualms with their actions. Thus Charles is just as guilty of their actions.

Barry and Larry also genuinely care about one another while Charles is a sociopath who cares about no one but himself.

His glee when he throws Mandy to Predator X and tries to make the others be forced to watch her get eaten alive also shows he's just as sadistic as them, he's just more subdued about it. He's also knowingly endangering the entire swamp, both from X's presence and because his endgame is to fill it with her offspring.

Predator X is just an animal, and thus has no real malice.

The guy is responsible for ordering at least six murders (not counting accidental kills or ones Barry and Larry did without his say so), attempts to commit several of his own, and is completely apathetic to any of the deaths his monster, Barry, or Larry cause outside of them. Thus, every death in the movie can be directly or indirectly traced back to Charles.

Final Verdict?

I think it's a keeper. He's a bit stand out from a lot of mad scientists for having a bit more complex of a plan and being a bit more hands on. Also, geeze is the acting in this movie bad except for Shepard. Even by Syfy Channel Original Movie standards.

Edited by Godzillawolf on Jun 5th 2020 at 3:31:13 PM

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#216556: Jun 5th 2020 at 12:41:11 PM

[tup] Charles.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#216558: Jun 5th 2020 at 12:46:25 PM

[tup]Charles

Why does sheppard star in these stupid films?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#216559: Jun 5th 2020 at 12:49:22 PM

Money maybe?

And it seems to often be a scientist...for some reason.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#216561: Jun 5th 2020 at 12:53:37 PM

[tup] Charles the mad scientist

[tdown] Mustache

Cut Bane and Zannah.

I had some more thoughts on Discworld. Maybe the quote could be Wolfgang Von Uberwald. I have a possible candidate, On Wolfgang beating Carrot to near death and then attempting another attack on the embassy For the Evulz:

Angua: He'll just track us down and follow us and then he'll kill Carrot!
Vimes: Why?
Angua: Because Carrot's mine!

Come to think of it, Wolfgang's writeup does neglect to mention some of his nastier crimes.

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#216562: Jun 5th 2020 at 12:54:42 PM

[tup] Charles. By the way, Wikipedia calls the movie: Xtinction: Predator X, so we should probably list it in T-Z.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jun 5th 2020 at 3:56:15 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#216563: Jun 5th 2020 at 12:57:26 PM

[up][up]Doesnt wolfgang try and start a war between species or somehing from what Ive heard. Shouldnt that be in his write-up.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#216564: Jun 5th 2020 at 12:58:24 PM

He does. That was actually a very, VERY old one of mine that I'd be glad to see edited

Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#216565: Jun 5th 2020 at 12:59:00 PM

Yeah, this movie has like nine different names:

Alligator X Xtinction: Predator X Jurassic Predator: Xtinction

The first one is especially weird as Charles spends an entire monologue about it NOT being an Alligator.

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#216566: Jun 5th 2020 at 1:00:41 PM

[tup] Dr. Charles Le Blanc

Edited by DrUnknown on Jun 5th 2020 at 1:01:23 AM

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#216567: Jun 5th 2020 at 1:06:34 PM

[tup]Le Blanc (nothing better than a shitty B movie to raise the spirits)

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#216568: Jun 5th 2020 at 1:25:41 PM

Yes to Charles. I'm not even sure which title we should use. IMDB has Jurassic Predator: Xtinction.

Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#216569: Jun 5th 2020 at 1:27:36 PM

The version I watched went by Alligator X, Wikipedia says Xtinction: Predator X, and IMDB uses what you said.

The actual creature its based on was called Predator x.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#216572: Jun 5th 2020 at 1:32:59 PM

[tup] to Charles

Cut Darth Bane, Zannah, and Havik

Well it looks like Mustache doesn't make despite Beast having made some points about him. Though it's clear that there are some trust issues that has been made in terms of the characters that I have post in the past. Look I'm not trying making stuff up in my post, I'm just typing my opinion on the characters that I think could count (though I admit Mother was indeed off). I was going to EP Adrian Yates from American Ultra today (whom I think definitely counts, and the tone is conducive enough to have a CM) but if people are not going to trust me on my EPs anymore I'll just give it a couple of days before I post anyone (though people are welcome to EP him from American Ultra if they seen it and think he counts). In fact perhaps I should take a break from the CM thread until I feel like I'm ready to do EPs. Perhaps everything will cool down by then

Edited by G-Editor on Jun 4th 2020 at 11:39:16 PM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#216573: Jun 5th 2020 at 1:38:35 PM

[tup] Charles

  • Airborne (1998): “Pierre Melo,” in actuality Ron Simpson, leader of Mach One, and his right hand man Dave Toombs are a pair of arms dealers out to sell a deadly virus for money. Sent by Melo to acquire the virus from a research facility, Toombs gases the building, killing over nine people to steal the virus. After Mach One acquires the virus, Toombs kills agent Romeo Cortez and tries to kill the other Mach One members on Melo’s orders. After shooting Toombs once he’s cornered by Mach One, Melo threatens to unleash the virus upon the state and turn it all into a cemetery.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Jun 5th 2020 at 1:39:34 AM

It's Spooky Month!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#216574: Jun 5th 2020 at 1:38:44 PM

Am I forgetting anyone? I'll get Joker with the batch this week.

[down] Got it.

Edited by ACW on Jun 5th 2020 at 4:43:45 AM

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#216575: Jun 5th 2020 at 1:42:42 PM

[up]There's the Silenced by the Lamb duo that DrUnknown has to write up.


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