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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#215526: May 30th 2020 at 3:31:13 PM

One more for today, and yes to Eye.

What's the work?

Cy Warrior, or "Cyborg - Il guerriero d'acciaio" is an Italian action film about a cyborg developed by the US army that goes on the run....except the Cyborg, 3CB, becomes self aware and objects to being used as a killing machine, going on the run. and our villain? Henry Silva's wicked Colonel Hammer.

Who is Colonel Hammer?

A humorless military officer out to catch 3CB and repurpose him for a military purpose, Hammer is also a vicious thug in uniform. Hammer, to keep the project on wraps, begins hunting for 3CB and killing just about everyone he encounters to make sure there are no witnesses.

Now, 3Cb begins to run and becomes involved with a woman and her son, learning about humanity, love and life, etc etc. With a few civilians dead and the family taking the cyborg to celebrate at a dance club/restaurant, Hammer arrives and has his men open fire, with a huge crowd of civilians massacred in loving detail from the film. The little boy that 3CB bonded with is taken captive and Hammer uses him as bait...and rigs explosive nearby to try to blow the kid up and disabled 3CB. The kid is almost killed, but a furious 3CB is able to take out Hammer's men, ending as he seizes him and puts his own gun under his chin before pulling the trigger.

Mitigating Qualities?

Hammer kills a few people, massacres a huge number of others and tries to blow up a kid. He's characterized as a sociopathic military man willing to slaughter anyone in his path to harness a weapon, with no care for anyone or anything else in the world. No, he's over the baseline and has enough nastiness easily.

Conclusion?

A nice, basic Henry Silva keeper, and thanks to Jackie for alerting me.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#215528: May 30th 2020 at 3:35:19 PM

Eh, nothing special, but he seems to do enough. Sure to Hammer.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#215529: May 30th 2020 at 3:36:14 PM

[tup] Hammer. You're welcome, Lighty.

It's Spooky Month!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#215530: May 30th 2020 at 3:53:52 PM

[tup]Hammer

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#215531: May 30th 2020 at 4:03:17 PM

[tup]Jewelius, Omodo, the Hammer and the eye

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Megazord Since: Nov, 2014
#215533: May 30th 2020 at 4:39:51 PM

So is it possible to discuss about a character who was created years ago and was killed off pretty quick?

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
Sircray Since: Apr, 2018
#215536: May 30th 2020 at 5:50:45 PM

2/3

Doctor Marissa Savoy from the M.A.N.T.I.S. episode "The Sea Wasp" (Season One, Episode 15)

Who They Are: Doctor Marissa Savoy was a marine biologist who worked at the Port Columbia Aquarium. She was also an Evilutionary Biologist who was obsessed with creating a new Chironex Fleckeri (sea wasp)-based Master Race called Chironex Sapien. She at some point spliced her own DNA with a sea wasp's genetic material, which granted her powers like being able to survive in salt water, and the ability to produce corrosive venom and a pheromone that let her control men, including the Aquarium's married director, Doctor Wallace Allan. Since the mutation is unstable—it will eventually turn her into a sea creature instead of an amphibious one like she wants—Marissa used the pheromone and sex to coerce Allan into getting her supplies and funding for her experiments dedicated to stabilizing it, while she also used the pheromone and sex to take control of three Aquarium employees named Richard, Mark, and Troy. Marissa mind-controlled the three into also undergoing the gene splicing, in order to use them as guinea pigs, as well as henchmen who would get her things like androgen by harvesting it from the butchered bodies of homeless people, prostitutes, etc. around Port Columbia. By the events of the episode, a dozen people have been murdered by either the lackeys or Marissa.

What They Do: Marissa gets stood up for dinner with Allan, who she later visits at the Aquarium. Allan calls Marissa out on using him and reveals that he has created an antidote to her pheromone before firing her from the Aquarium. Allan hides the antidote, and is then murdered by Marissa.

While Marissa is relaxing in a tank at the Aquarium, Richard confronts her about the death of Allan. Marissa uses her pheromone to strengthen her hold on Richard, telling him, "Does it matter? I had to kill him. Does his death really matter to you? Hmm? No. Nothing matters but survival. And breeding. The creation of our new species. That's why you joined us. Not for the college credit or the money, but a chance to make history. And the future. Lets talk about it tonight over dinner. You are free, aren't you? Hmm? Of course you are. Tonight... is a breeding night."

Miles looks into Allan's strange death, as well as all of the other similar deaths that have occurred in the last year, and discovers peculiar chemicals in Alan's body, including the pheromone and a corrosive variation of the venom of a Chironex Fleckeri. At the Aquarium, Richard complains about being in pain, and is given a shot by Marissa. Marissa reveals that with Allan dead, her supplies and funds have been cut off, so she needs Richard, Troy, and Mark to kill more people more frequently to get what she needs from their bodies; when Richard expresses discomfort over this, Marissa tries to reassure him by saying, "You're not one of them anymore, you're Chironex Sapien." This disturbs Richard, who is murdered for being too moralistic and "human" by an exasperated Marissa. Richard's body is found by an investigating Mantis before it can be disposed of by Troy and Mark.

Marissa feigns distress over Richard's death, and infects Miles with her pheromone before meeting with Troy and Mark. The two have killed and are harvesting another person, and when Mark complains about everything from the murders to his worsening mutation, he is given more pheromone by Marissa. Marissa later pumps Miles full of more pheromone and nearly kills Leora, but is forced to retreat by the approaching Port Columbia PD.

Mark's mutation has gone out of control, and he refuses to go into the water to try and save himself, making it clear that he wants to die "like a person" as he passes away in the arms of a tearful Troy after telling Troy that he cannot even remember why they "volunteered" to be experimented on by Marissa. Marissa saw everything from afar, and callously orders Troy to throw Mark's corpse into the sea, making it clear that she will kill him like she did Richard when he hesitates to dispose of Mark. Marissa afterward solidifies her control over Miles, who reveals to her that he is Mantis and can give her anything that she wants for her experiments (which she intends to conduct on him) after bringing her to the Seapod.

Further examination of Allan's body reveals that he had created a cure for the pheromone, which John and Taylor find in the Aquarium. The two are then attacked by Marissa, who orders Mantis and Troy to kill and harvest them, but before that can happen, Mantis is injected with the cure by John. Mantis throws Marissa into a tank of fresh water, where she suffocates and, for some reason, dissolves, breaking her hold over Troy, who will hopefully someday be cured by Hawkins Technologies, Inc.

Heinousness: She had the second highest body count in the show at fifteen (sixteen if you count Mark being Driven to Suicide) and made it perfectly clear that she had renounced her humanity, seeing herself as above humans to the point of becoming so annoyed by Richard's hesitance to continue murdering them and renounce his own humanity that she murders him; and then there is the whole mind-control aspect, with her addling the brains of people to get them to fund her, kill for her, and even sleep with her (while not outright referred to as rape, the immunized Allan does angrily rant about how he loves his wife and about how what Marissa had made him do was destroying him on the inside out of guilt). She was the show's worst super villain in terms of crimes committed, and unlike several of the others (including a fellow mind-controller, a psychotic Well-Intentioned Extremist with a tragic backstory) she lacked any kind of sympathetic quality (the dying speedster wanted to drive everyone out of the city so that nature could reclaim it and it could become a preserve dedicated to his late environmentalist wife; the holograph specialist wanted revenge on the friends who nearly killed and horribly disfigured him; the druid wanted revenge for the genocide of his people, who he was making sacrifices for to try and resurrect them, etc.) or delusions of altruism (the aforementioned mind-controller was driven insane by childhood abuse and overuse of his technology, and came to believe that parents were all evil and that their teenage children needed to be pushed into killing them in order to create a paradise for young people).

Mitigating Factors: There was no indication that the transformation affected her mind, and she willingly subjected herself to it unlike Richard, Troy, and Scott. While she did need the hormones et al that she extracted from the downtrodden because she was gradually turning into a full-on sea creature that would be unable to survive on land like she wanted, she also proved to be perfectly fine with murdering anyone who tried to stop her, who outlived their usefulness, or who proved unwilling to fully dedicate themselves to her (by, say, refusing to kill more and more people for her while also refusing to renounce their humanity).

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#215537: May 30th 2020 at 6:21:59 PM

Yes to Asteroth, the Eye, Hammer, and Marissa.

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#215538: May 30th 2020 at 6:30:36 PM

Hello. This is my first effort post on this thread, so if I make any mistakes with it, I apologize and I'm willing to hear any ways I can improve. Regardless, onto the work.

What is the Work

"In The Beginning" is a fan-made short movie that details the origins of the world in Minecraft (apologies for the lack of a link to the video, but new accounts can't include external links). Unlike the main game it's based on, it has dialogue, characters, and an actual plot that clearly tells a story. The main antagonist and candidate of this story? Herobrine.

Who is Herobrine and What has he Done?

Herobrine is the brother of Notch, the main protagonist of this story, in which he helped Notch create the world of Minecraft out of a void. Together, they create light, land, animals, and other various aspects of the world. Notably, they create Villagers and Steves (the player characters of Minecraft) to create a working civilization in the world and maintain the land.

However, Herobrine noticed that none of the Villagers or Steves acknowledged him or Notch, outraging him because he believed that they should obey and worship them. He brings his complaints to Notch, who explains that he gave them free will so that they could have the best lives possible without divine intervention. This enrages Herobrine, believing that free will would "ruin" their perfect and ordered world. Ultimately, Herobrine is unable to persuade Notch to his point of view and thus Notch leaves to create the rest of the world, leaving Herobrine to maintain what they have created.

After this exchange, Herobrine began to despise the Villagers and Steves as "imperfect." To resolve this issue, he decided to exterminate them and create his "perfect" world. He starts by raining fire on many villages, destroying them and massacring the Villagers inhabiting them. Next, he created mobs (hostile creatures) designed to hunt and kill the Steves in Minecraft. He even created the Endermen to find any hiding survivors and tear down whatever barricades they used, allowing the other mobs to kill them as well.

Eventually, Notch returned and is understandably horrified by the damage Herobrine created. Notch is furious at Herobrine for his crimes and when Herobrine refuses to back down, a fight ensues between the two. Throughout the fight, Notch begs Herobrine to stop his madness, but Herobrine is unwilling to hear him out and continues attacking him, with obvious intent to kill him. Ultimately, Herobrine is unwilling to redeem himself, while Notch refuses to kill him and stoop down to his level. Instead, Notch decides to banish and imprison Herobrine to the Nether, a realm representing Hell.

Despite this, Herobrine swore vengeance on Notch and vowed to return one day. His plans are already ongoing; he's built up an army in the Nether in preparation for his return and even created the Ender Dragon that would eventually bring Herobrine to the world of Minecraft and exact his revenge.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Herobrine used to be friends with Notch, but this potentially mitigating factor is rendered null when he betrays Notch anyway to create his own "perfect" world, in which he tries to kill him and expresses no remorse in his actions, as shown when he plots his revenge. Speaking of, Herobrine likes to tout his "perfect" world as a good thing that would bring order, but said order means worshiping Herobrine and obeying his commands. In the end, creating his own world is for his own self-serving purposes and thus would qualify as a Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist. He also has no problems with moral agency, considering that Notch is a similar being to him and is much more benevolent. Additionally, Herobrine's not a Generic Doomsday Villain, as he has a clearly spiteful personality to those he deems inferior or disagrees with.

As for a Freudian Excuse, Herobrine occasionally complains that Notch has a bigger role in creating the world of Minecraft, but this is pretty much false. During the montage of when they created the world, both played a role in this regard. Notch is also never seen abusing or even slightly mistreating Herobrine, if only disagreeing with him once in a civil manner. If anything, Notch has been shown to deeply care for Herobrine, trying to reason with him during their fight and even expressing hope that they'll reconcile one day. Therefore, Herobrine doesn't have much of a Freudian Excuse.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Minecraft doesn't have much of a heinousness standard, since it's a sandbox game. However, Herobrine's onscreen destruction of inhabited villages and partially successful genocide is enough to qualify past the general heinousness standard. He also doesn't have any other villains to compete with in this story, so Herobrine doesn't have any trouble with the heinousness standard.

Final Verdict

I think he's a [tup], though I'll leave it up to you guys.

Edited by DrUnknown on May 30th 2020 at 9:02:26 AM

PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#215540: May 30th 2020 at 6:42:34 PM

[tup] to Doctor Marissa Savoy and Herobrine.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#215541: May 30th 2020 at 6:57:42 PM

[tup] to the eye, hammer, marissa, and herobrine

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#215542: May 30th 2020 at 7:19:48 PM

[tup] Dr. Savoy and Herobrine.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#215543: May 30th 2020 at 7:21:59 PM

[tup] Eye.

[tup] Asteroth.

[tup] Hammer.

[tup] Marissa.

[tup] Herobrine.

Edited by Beast on May 30th 2020 at 9:22:13 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#215544: May 30th 2020 at 7:33:59 PM

The entry for the Hunger Games has been removed from the Live-Action Films category for some reason. Was that intentional?

Also, did we agree to take down President Coin while I wasn't here?

Edited by Critica7 on May 30th 2020 at 7:41:31 AM

Check out my current fanfiction project.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#215545: May 30th 2020 at 7:47:16 PM

Sure to the last three... The Hunger Games entry is a book original so it would be on the literature page and Alma Coin has never been listed here.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#215547: May 30th 2020 at 8:11:24 PM

[up][up] Yeah, that was what I thought cause I NEVER recalled seeing Coin on Hunger Games' YMMV page.

Also, [tup] Jewelius.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#215548: May 30th 2020 at 9:05:18 PM

Eye, Hammer, Marissa, Herobrine

Plus, I remember that Film!Snow had a love towards his granddaughter.

NJRhino Since: May, 2020
#215549: May 30th 2020 at 9:08:11 PM

[tup] Hammer, Marissa and Herobrine.

Sircray Since: Apr, 2018
#215550: May 30th 2020 at 9:35:41 PM

3/3

Solomon Box from M.A.N.T.I.S.

Who They Are: Box was Miles's business partner, and the co-founder of Hawkins Technologies, Inc. Box at one point went behind Miles's back and showed his research off to the military, which got them a contract to design a virus for the Department of Defense. While Miles did work with Box to create the virus, as well as its cure, he came to regret it, and ordered that the virus and its cure both be destroyed, to the outrage of Box. Box hired a corrupt police detective named Paul Warren to snipe Miles, but Warren succeeded only in paralyzing Miles. Box thought about finishing Miles off in the hospital, but Miles's life being practically destroyed (to the amusement of Box) left him so despondent that he put up no fuss whatsoever when it came to dissolving his partnership with Box, who would go on to found Box Industries. Box used bribery to stop the virus and its cure from being destroyed, and reacquired them through a corrupt hazardous waste disposal worker named Hauck.

What They Do:

  • 1. Box tests the virus out on random people—killing at least eight—to show its effectiveness off to North Koreans. When a flustered Hauck asks for more money due to the unwanted publicity caused by all of the deaths, Box punches him and sends him running off while warning him, "Don't come sniffing around me in public, not now, not ever." When Leora starts looking into Hauck, Box has him murdered (via staged suicide) by his henchman, Tony. Miles confronts Box, who admits to reacquiring and testing the virus, which he threatens to kill even more innocent people with to stifle Miles. He later tries and fails to assassinate Miles. Miles, as Mantis, prevents the virus from falling into the hands of the North Koreans, and uses the cure to save the infected Leora.
  • 8. Box deploys a group of lackeys to steal guidance hardware for intercept weapons, to be sold to terrorists in the Middle East, but they are foiled by Mantis. Box brings in an on-retainer specialist named Raymond Geary, offering him a million to kill Mantis, and three million to capture Mantis. Mantis fakes his death during a confrontation with Geary; Geary is aware of the duplicity, and after getting his million from the suspicious Box, continues to hunt Mantis. After dealing with Geary, Mantis visits Box, who he throws across his office while warning him, "Your sickness will no longer be tolerated."
  • 10. Box is covertly pushing for the formation of a Police Tactical Strike Team (whose primary objective would be taking down Mantis) through his toadie, Police Chief Grant. Box has the city councilman who most adamantly opposes the formation of the TST assassinated with an aneurysm-inducing sonic cannon by Warren, and pins the death on Mantis. Warren also makes an unauthorized attempt on the life of the investigating Leora with the sonic cannon, but she is saved by Mantis, who gets the blame for assaulting Leora. The attacks scare everyone into agreeing to implement the TST, though with the caveat that it be overseen by Leora and Captain Hetrick, and not Chief Grant. In a conversation that is bugged by Miles, Box orders that Warren be disposed of (to the discomfort of Grant) and lets slip that Miles being shot was not an accident; he had told Warren to assassinate Miles. Mantis gets a taped confession out of Warren right before Warren is killed by Tony.
  • 11. The dying Warren told Hetrick about Box, who abducts Hetrick. Box enslaves Hetrick (and, by extension, the TST) by sticking a chip in his brain that acts as both a listening device and an Agony Beam, the effects of which he joyfully demonstrates to Hetrick. Twice. A haggard Mantis gets cornered by the TST while breaking into Box Industries. Box personally tries to kill Mantis with the sonic cannon, planning on unmasking him after he is dead, but Mantis manages to deflect the sonic cannon back at Box. Unfortunately, Box escapes, though Warren's confession ensures that he will be staying out of Port Columbia.

Heinousness: His Establishing Character Moment was silently grinning while watching a news report about all of the death and panic caused by his testing of the virus, which he later threatened to expose even more innocent people to just to stop Miles from going to the authorities, pretty firmly establishing him as The Sociopath.

Box: Simple economics. You paid $50,000 to have that virus destroyed. Along comes an enterprising soul who paid ten times that just to keep it. And with international tensions being what they are today, that virus is worth millions to any little tyrant looking around for a big stick. Catch my drift, Miles?
Miles: I've got enough to go to the police. End this now, or I will.
Box: Well, I would think long and hard about that, if I were you, Miles. For the sake of argument, let's imagine that those unfortunate deaths were simply a small scale demonstration to bolster a sale. The danger for Port Columbia then would have passed... as long as the people behaved reasonably. If not, the person who had that deadly virus could certainly... unleash it again. And will. We, uh, do understand each other?

The first half of the show dealt mainly with mundane villains, of which Box was the worst, even managing to dwarf most of the super villains that were introduced in the second half of the series thanks to having the third highest body count in the show, being a warmongering Arms Dealer who was prone to You Have Outlived Your Usefulness, and thinking that the best way to deal with someone who was on to him was by shoving a microchip into the pain center of the man's brain so that he could subject him to agonizing (but mark less) torture at any time and any place.

Mitigating Factors: He and his second-in-command, Tony, were shown doing things like playing chess, but the two never came off as actual friends, with Tony not even being shown alongside Box (who he was defeated alongside) when it is revealed that Box had escaped from Port Columbia.


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