During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yes to Eclipso. Sorry to hear that, Bullman; take care of yourself.
Okay, despite saying that matthew was my last Top Cow candidate, i went back to someone i was reculant about and after rereading all the material, i think he deserves a shot. This is definitely my last Top Cow candidate from me overall, because all the rest of bad guys are too murky for me to determine if they deserve a shot.
What is the Work?
Okay, i talked about The Darkness couple weeks before, when i proposed Paulie Franchetti. For curious this comic is a about Jackie Estacado, a former hitman turned mafia leader, who holds the powers of the primodal entity called The Darkness. Now after rereading all of The Darkness again, i think i found one candidate worth talking about, he is the protagonist of issue 89 in third comic series The Darkness from 2007 and the villain of Witchblade: Day of the Outlaws Special.
I talk about Jackie's ancestor from Wild West - Ramon Estacado.
Who is Ramon Estacado?
As i said, Ramon Estacado is an ancestor of Jackie Estacado, who inherited The Darkness, since The Darkness "injected" itself in family line of Estacados. A ruthless thug and gang leader, Ramon is known for robbing trains full of gold and pillaging villages for fun, while also making it his own "tradition" to rape every woman in the towns that he pillaging. At one point having his gang turned to demons and leaving them to die, Ramon was eventually captured by Spanish villagers while he was powerless during the day (The Darkness doesn't work in sun's light) and as they prepared to hang him, he stall the time with his "sob story" before the sun sets and frees himself easily, knocking down one of his captors he wishes he had time to "fuck his throat", but he was getting late to rob the train full of gold. Attacking this train, he brutally slaughters its guards, but the last survivor blew up the train, in hopes of killing Ramon. Ramon survived but he met his angry gang, whom he turned to demons, they beat him up and throw his off the cliff.
As Ramon awakens he tracks them down, at one point stopping to help the injured woman in hopes to "get laid" but then leaving her to die on the road, when he heard about the gold. Arriving in town, which his treacherous gang started to pillage, Ramon challenges the one, who led "rebellion" against him, reveals that the curse could have been easily lifted by breaking the magic necklaces which Ramon had gave them and then kills him. Taking control of the gang once again and killing another member who dared to speak against his decision, Ramon leads his gang to rape all the rest of the women in town and burn it to the ground.
Appearing at another town later in time, the one which drove away the current wielder of Witchblade at the time, who was also a sheriff, Ramon (who apparently turned his gang into his Darklings aka Creatures of The Darkness now) put an ultimatum to the pastor, who greeted him, either he give him all his women or he will burn the town to the ground. Pastor runs and Ramon decided that it would be funnier to let him freeze to death. As he has his men drag the women outside to be raped, the pastor brought the current wielder of Witchblade, who defeated him and ordered him (and only him, not the rest of his gang) to run. Ramon left his gang and made his escape while Witchblade left the town at the mercy of Ramon's gang as a revenge for banishing her earlier.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
None. Ramon does everything he can to be a revolting and treacherous bastard through and through.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Okay, i won't be making it any less clear but the standard of The Darkness is high, mass murder has become ordinary occurance by the third comic series and brutal deaths are nothing shocking, there even a few rapists during the comic run. Even Paulie had only passed from me barely, because he is the worst among ordinary human villains, who always commited the most personal attacks against Jackie (like blowing up the orphanage). But while there are few rapists and several mass murderers, Ramon manages to stand out with his MO, as in he is the only one villain in the comic who made a mass rape (rape of all women of the towns that he ravaged) a part of the daily life for him, since the few of the rapists that there are in the comic series only have like one victim of their impulse, Ramon instead indulge in it, loving every moment and seeking more. And even when his gang act independed of him and decide to ravage town and rape few women in it, it was the town he wanted to target anyway (for trying to hang him) and the gang were acted on his influence from before (as in following his MO) and Ramon, when he took the gang under his control again, then decided to continue where they left off, intending on raping the rest of the women and then kill everyone there. We see enough of the pattern, with him loving to talk about pillaging towns, his reputations is known enough that people fear him, he is shown captured in the start for terrorizing a town and by the start of Witchblade special he is shown to treat it as everyday activity. Also he is not very strong among The Darkness wielders, as few simple demons (in reality his men, whom he betrayed) were able to beat him up easily, in contrast the rest would have been able to carve those demons apart.
Final Verdict?
What do you think?
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Eclipso (he's responsible for my personal favorite title for a comic "Total Eclipso the Heart"
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Kobra, Tala and Eclipso.
I hope you feel better soon Bullman.
Edit: to Ramon Estacado.
Edited by MGD107 on May 28th 2020 at 12:54:30 PM
Eclipso and Ramond.
Rrrramon (said with the rolling of the r's)
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Ba-dum-tish
Edited by nwotyzal on May 28th 2020 at 12:53:20 PM
Tala and Eclipso
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
And apparently Eclipso was created by Darkseid? And still has agency? Huh. Yes to him. Post-Crisis group?
Yes to Ramon. Karma Houdini rapist? Ugh.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Ramon
Wait no. Eclipso was created by God to be an avenging spirit. Where Do D you get darkseid making him.
While he's jackie's ancestor. Don't think he can actually die unless he's already sired his line.
Edited by miraculous on May 28th 2020 at 12:53:22 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I thought sharks were my friends.
Yay to Ramon and Eclipso
RIP KissAnime.
Wild Child
Eclipso and Ramon.
The "Eclipso was created by Darkseid" thing was a retcon and one that didn't stick given he's the Spectre's predecessor.
Edited by Lightysnake on May 28th 2020 at 12:53:16 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah, good. So just slot him Post-Crisis on his own like Darkseid and Krona?
Mir, from his page.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Oh it's a retcon. Oh god dc continuity is always weird for characters like this which run for decades.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The wifi here sucks
Considering how he massacred everyone in towns he ravaged, he probably killed the women, who he raped.
Goku Black
I don't mean like that. I mean why he got away as whoever his kid that will lead to jackie may not have been concived yet.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Feel better soon, Bullman!
OK noted, I'll keep doing the punctuation once the EP goes on here. Thanks for the advice.
Eclipso, Ramond, Dr Gotham (I'd missed that one so went back and re-read)
NVM
Edited by VeryVileVillian on May 28th 2020 at 11:25:27 AM
Yes to Ramon.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Kobra, Tala, Eclipso, and Top Ramen
Kobra, Tala, Eclipso and Ramon.
The Draftsman of Doom
Showtime!
to Eclipso and Raymond
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Eclipso
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."