During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Black Pope, Squire Meadows, the Tiger and Paul du Mond.
Paul du Mond.
Showtime!
to Meadows, the Tiger, Paul, and the Joffery quote
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Dr. Gotham, Deimos, Black Pope, Meadows, the Tiger, Paul.
Yes to the Joffrey quote.
Here is my Mephisto write up:
- What if Dr. Doom Became a Hero: In this reality where Dr. Doom became a hero instead of a villain, Mephisto remains one of Doom's most personal foes. Mephisto has tricked Dr. Doom's mother Cynthia into selling her soul to him and Dr. Doom frees her soul from Mephisto's realm. Mephisto is angered that Doom freed one of the souls he has imprisoned and later teleports Doom to his realm. Mephisto states he plans to harvest all the souls in Latveria for revenge unless Doom gives him a soul in exchange. Mephisto forces Doom to chose, give him either his soul or the soul of his beloved wife Valeria, in exchange for the souls of the people of Latveria.
Edited by Overlord on May 28th 2020 at 7:36:17 AM
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Paul du Mond and Tiger.
Here's the thing following the conclusion of the Dr. Stone crossover campaign from Last Cloudia.
Tsukasa is a non-keeper for reasons already established in Dr. Stone and the fact that he protected two children from getting killed by monsters Lily unleashed on them and Lily's arc is still ongoing, so we cannot hold any real discussion yet.
I wouldn't mind another person reserving Last Cloudia.
IPP Wick Check created.
Speaking of Mephisto, what about this quote:
''You have called me demon and monster, but I am the lord of demons, the ultimate monster! I am the living evil, I am Mephisto!''
From Doctor Strange & Doctor Doom: Triumph and Torment
Edited by Overlord on May 28th 2020 at 7:51:24 AM
Self-Declared King of Everything
to the quote.
Sorry I haven’t been here in a while. It just has been hard finding good fanfics with enough meat on them to have a potential qualifier lately.
On an aside note, do we have someone following Little Umbrella Girl (the comic)?
Check out my current fanfiction project.
There are quite a few reasons I'm not following that one, if it's what I'm thinking of. If you want it, go for it, but the creator is simply loathsome
Edited by Lightysnake on May 28th 2020 at 8:16:27 AM
Squire, Mond (the worst kind of bastard in history), Tiger
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I would ask what that is and what the person did, but I think I'm more comfortable not knowing what that is and what the person did.
Edited by nwotyzal on May 28th 2020 at 8:37:45 AM
Yes to Black Pope, Meadows (seems really dark for a 30s movie villain), Tiger, and Paul (was gonna make a crack about how that's fitting since it's my dad's name, but I just felt gross reading that). Got a few Y'golonac vibes from him somehow.
Edited by Stellarvore on May 28th 2020 at 10:37:52 AM
Black Pope.
Meadows.
The Tiger.
Paul.
Self-Declared King of Everything
Lightysnake, you do realize those allegations are for a completely different person, right? The comic creator Matthew Lewis and the child molester Matthew Lewis are, in fact, two different people who have the same name.
Edited by Critica7 on May 28th 2020 at 9:39:12 AM
Check out my current fanfiction project.
I wasn’t even thinking of child molestation and was unaware of that . No, he’s despicable in many other ways. But that’s neither here nor there for our purposes. There’s no bar to anything
Edited by Lightysnake on May 28th 2020 at 9:48:27 AM
Yeah I don't mean to mini-mod but this is a very offtopic conversation that probably shouldn't be done in this thread
Also I didn't put this in the Joffrey quote because it would be natter but in the following scene even Tywin Lannister is somewhat shocked/unsettled by it which helps it stand out imo
Yeah I’m leaving it. Just personal reasons.
I have my support for the line from Joff
Wild Child
Paul.
Anyone else have opinions on my Mephisto quote?
I am now comfortable with returning to this thread. In the future, I will try not to go off on tangents or ask meaningless questions. This thread is not a soapbox—no thread is.
Belated to Paul du Mond.
Should Griffin front Red Zone Cuba be added to the Never Again list? He’s been brought up a fair bit before and he’s such a special case that some people would probably get confused.
Sure to the quote.
One of my last DC examples: Kobra from Post-Crisis.
Who is Kobra?
Born Jeffrey Franklin Burr, Kobra is an original creation of Jack Kirby himself, reworked a few times. Jeffrey was born a twin to Jason Burr, but taken at birth by the Kobra cult as their destined messiah. He eventually turned the cult from a religious group into a terrorist one, becomign a sinister mastermind who believed it was his destiny to usher in an age of chaos, or the Kali Yuga, becoming the supreme leader or 'Naja-Naja' of the cult. He and Jason shared a psychic link, where one felt with the other did. Eventually he freed himself of this and killed his twin.
Post-Crisis, Kobra is a terrorist mastermind, causing attacks all over the globe to kill loads of innocent people. One of his big major storylines is attempting to cause an earthquake to destroy Keystone City, trying to murder the lover of Wally "The Flash" West, Linda Park to keep it secret.
The arc that brings him to this is in Justice Society of America when he takes control of the hero Airwave, intending to seize control of the world's media and satellite resources so he can redirect them to annihilate most of the major cities of the world. To show he's serious, he has a plane full of innocents blown up, including the mother of hero Atom Smasher. He then seemingly takes the Chairman of the JSA captive to execute on live TV. Using the global satellites he seizes, Kobra intends on global armageddon. Kobra plans to destroy New York City, Washington DC, then Paris, Tokyo, Stockholm, until all the "towers of Babel" have fallen. The JSA foils it and takes him hostage, but Kobra blackmails himself out by having 500 brainwashed followers threaten the surrounding city...with some destruction to show he's serious. With little choice, Kobra is allowed to skate, to the fury of Atom Smasher who had previously passed a chance to kill Kobra in lieu of seeing him brought to justice.
Atom Smasher later sides with Black Adam and attacks Kobra's stronghold, massacring his guards and Black Adam lifting up Burr himself. Kobra tries to bluff that a bomb is connected to his heart that can wipe out a major city if it ceases to beat, but upon seeing this is a lie, Adam rips his heart out. Kobra would return, but in the form of a revived and brainwashed Jason Burr, with Jeffrey being perma-dead.
Mitigating Issues?
This is an interesting case...the original Kobra miniseries has Jeffrey with a lost love, and a goal of his lover Natalie who was killed by Interpol (she was a jewel thief)...he rejoined Kobra to punish all law enforcement and government. This was in the 1970s. The modern day Kobra, however, post-Crisis? This is never mentioned and his goal is explicitly to bring out the Kali Yuga and rule over the world like a god, so it seems to have been retconned, especially as Jeffrey Burr became a much darker villain. But he easily passes the heinous standard. He's a normal human, albeit skilled enough to go toe to toe with the world's best fighters. He's got the Kobra cult, but regularly commits terrorist actions that cause huge casualties and in JSA he tries to wipe out every major city in the world before he's killed. Beyond that, nothing.
Conclusion?
I say yes for Kobra, given this is Post-Crisis only.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Yay to Kobra.
RIP KissAnime.
to Kobra.
Yes to the Black Pope, Meadows, Tiger, and Paul.