During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to the Clone and The Remnant.
Alright, I’ve got one candidate that I’m not too sure about, but felt like he at least deserves an EP. He’s from a movie that I saw called Sleepless so lets talk about that.
What’s The Work?
Sleepless is a 2017 action crime thriller film starring Jamie Foxx. Premise revolves around Foxx’s character Vincent Downs, a police officer in Las Vegas, that’s trying to save his son from hotel owner Stanley Rubino after he kidnaps Downs son, Thomas, and tries to ransom him. However Rubino isn’t the candidate I’ll be discussing but rather the person he answers to, Rob Novak.
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
Rob Novak is the son a powerful mob boss who controls the criminal underworld in Las Vegas, where Rob acts as his dreaded enforcer torturing and murdering numerous people. One notable example is when he tortures his own cousin for an entire day with a baseball machine demanding to know what happened to his drug shipment only to learn that it was stolen under Rubino’s watch where Rob murders him gruesomely by ripping out his tongue.
He would later show his cousins severed tongue to Rubino demanding that he retrieve back his drugs or else he will suffer the same gruesome fate. This leads to Rubino to kidnap Thomas and trying to exchange him for the drugs that his father, Vincent, stole. Vincent Downs tries to return the drugs to Rubino, but due to the police interference, Rob grow impatient with Rubino where he subject Rubino to a painful Groin Attack before deciding to execute him in front of a public crowd of party goers.
However, Vincent and Thomas show up having escape Rubino’s captivity where Rob shoots at the crowd hoping to kill the two, uncaring if he also kills the numerous innocent people in the crowd and in Rubino’s resort & casino.Rob eventually tracks down Vincent and his ex-wife and son to a parking lot where he guns them down hoping to kill the family. Rob eventually shoots Vincent nearly killing him, but Vincent was able to shoot Rob in the throat killing Rob.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?
All that’s known about Rob is that he’s the son of a mob boss. Also it worth noting that Rob never shows that he loves or cares for his father or family for that manner, willing to torture his own cousin to death just for letting his drugs get stolen at his watch. He’s only carrying out his father’s commands because he’s afraid of him rather and not out of genuine love or loyalty for him treating his father more like a feared boss than a father and we’ve ruled that showing fear isn’t a redeeming quality.
Heinousness
I’m a little unsure, but I think that Rob manages to be heinous just enough to be considered. Other villains include Rubino who kidnaps Thomas and hold him hostage, corrupt cop Doug Dennison who kills Rubino and a fellow cop and tries to kill his own partner to conceal his own corruption, and Rob’s father, a mob who serves as the Greater-Scope Villain of the movie but doesn’t make an onscreen appearance in the film
That’s said I think Rob outmatches them in heinous given how cruel his actions are in the film. He has tortured his own cousin for an entire day by having a baseball machine launch base balls at him before he horrifically kills ripping out his tongue, threatens to do the same thing to Robino before putting his balls in a painful vice grip and tries to kill him at public, tries killing Vincent and his teenage son in a massive crowd, willing to kill innocent people along the way and tries to murder Down’s entire family by gunning them down, even nearly killing Vincent.
Final Verdict?
I will leave it to you guys.
Edited by G-Editor on May 21st 2020 at 6:11:07 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff![]()
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Fair enough. But there's also this line from Ada about the clones:
“Umbrella imprints them with basic memories. In one life she could be suburban house wife. The next a business women in New York. The next a solider working for Umbrella.”
I’m just not comfortable with up voting any of the Clones. Like I said, it's just me.
Edited by NTG on May 21st 2020 at 5:27:35 AM
Yes to Rob
Honestly I really don't think that the 2nd clone is all that heinous really, he kills at most about 20 or so people and tries to kill, from what we see, a few dozen more (since it's stated that there are multiple attacks going on and that the people he's attacking are not the last humans left). Honestly the indoctrination is only touched upon lightly in one scene and the released prisoners seem to be fine once their released.
Regarding moral agency this Isaacs seems to have been created by the real one to run experiments in his stead (he's only really mentioned in one scene of the lat movie which more or less just says he's a clone with no elaboration), and in the end, he turns on Umbrella and tries to work on his own, showing that his selfishness is greater than whatever fake memories Isaacs gave him.
Alright, before I post the write ups I wanted to edit the write up for the real Isaacs to fix a mistake (he didn't experiment on innocents as far as we see, just on sentient clones) and to add a few minor crimes from the last film
Old
- Dr. Alexander Isaacs, the Big Bad of The Final Chapter and the Greater-Scope Villain of the entire series, is an Evil Genius who murdered his kindhearted colleague Dr. Marcus for the T-Virus when he realized its potential as a weapon. Isaacs ran simulated outbreaks with sentient clones in order to sell the virus to superpowers. Isaacs later gained delusions of godhood and opted to release the Virus at large while freezing himself and the few "chosen" in cryogenic hibernation in order to later rebuild the world in his image. The end result was a mass extinction event of the world and the deaths of most of the human race. Isaacs leaves his own clones and Wesker to clean up and run more experiments, aiming to exterminate any survivors. When he awakens, Isaacs promptly attempts to kill the heroine Alicia "Alice" Marcus as well, intent on maintaining the ultimate power he's betrayed and murdered to achieve.
New
- Dr. Alexander Isaacs, the Big Bad of The Final Chapter and the Greater-Scope Villain of the entire series, is an Evil Genius who murdered his kindhearted colleague Dr. Marcus for the T-Virus when he realized its potential as a weapon. Isaacs ran simulated outbreaks with sentient clones in order to sell the virus to superpowers. Isaacs later gained delusions of godhood and opted to release the Virus at large while freezing himself and the few "chosen" in cryogenic hibernation in order to later rebuild the world in his image. The end result was a mass extinction event of the world and the deaths of most of the human race. Isaacs leaves his own clones and Albert Wesker to clean up, aiming to exterminate any survivors. When he awakens, Isaacs attacks the heroine Alicia "Alice" Marcus, tauntingly revealing that she's a clone and slicing off her fingers before trying to murder her, intent on maintaining the ultimate power he's betrayed and murdered to achieve.
Edited by papyru30 on May 22nd 2020 at 10:59:07 AM
Just cut this from YMMV.Along Came A Spider. Can anyone verify?
- Complete Monster: "Gary Soneji", after burning his abusive parents alive when he was 15, realized he loved the attention given to the crime. Several years later, Soneji disguised himself as a computer science teacher at a private school. After two years, Soneji kidnaps Megan Rose, the young daughter of a U.S. Senator, and murders a teacher along the way simply to show he is serious. Soneji brings retired forensic psychologist Alex Cross into the hunt for him simply to add more of a challenge, gleefully reminding Cross of the death his partner. When Megan tries to escape, Soneji shoots a fisherman trying to rescue her in front of the girl and then emotionally manipulates her into believing it was her fault. Soneji then pretends to be Megan over the computer to lure her friend Dmitri (son of the Russian president) into an ambush to garner more attention. Soneji murders two police officers to hijack their cars for the ambush without remorse. When his second kidnapping attempt fails, Soneji tries to murder Megan, only stopping because she had already been kidnapped once more. A cruel sociopath who cared only about gaining attention, Soneji was one of Alex Cross' most vile opponents.
Gary is a keeper in the books but Though that's because he returned and ended up racking up a triple digit body count . I think he's a bit too generic in the films at least compared to Casanova from kiss the girls (who ironically fails standard in the books thanks to guys like Gary after his return) since they never adapted his worst stuff.
Edited by miraculous on May 21st 2020 at 6:35:34 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Got an EP today that I mean as a birthday EP for Duck—a Paul Naschy Eurohorror he recommended me for a keep.
What's the setting?
Vengeance of the Zombies is an early 70s horror flick with Paul Naschy playing the villain, a voodoo guru who went to Africa and came back with dark and sinister secrets. Zombies are now roaming around London and killing whomever they find, and the bodies of women seem to be vanishing, leading to the London police and a woman who befriended the guru named Elvire Irving. Can they stop the zombies to the backdrop of trippy Italian funk music?
Said guru, Krisna, played by Paul Naschy, doesn't keep. It's his twin brother that keeps, Kantaka (also, appropriately enough, played by Paul Naschy).
Who is Kantaka? What has he done?
Krisna's twin brother and by far the more evil of the duo, Kantaka has taken the voodoo he and his brother were taught in Africa and perverted it for his own evil ends. Kantaka ended up on the hitlist of some pretty powerful families when he raped the daughter of a powerful family to death, leading to an angry mob nearly burning him alive. Kantaka managed to survive, albeit horribly scarred, and decides to use his new voodoo powers for some horrible vengeance...
Using Krisna as his patsy, essentially enslaving his brother to his dark control no matter how hard Krisna attempts to fight, Kantaka starts rising a zombie army and unleashes them to start killing whomever they find. Kantaka aims for the young women of the families who put him down, intending to zombify them and them have them exterminate their own families. Innocent bystanders are not a problem; scores of innocent people end up killed, many of which are only in proxy of Kantaka's intended victims and aren't even zombified. These methods range from methods as gruesome as axes in the face, garroting, strangling, stabbing, being forced to cut open their own throats via voodoo manipulation...
All of Kantaka's servants start to turn against him for his self-serving lunacy and Kantaka starts killing them one after another. When one of his servants tries to free Elvire, Kantaka has him nearly decapitated. The assassin who did this ends up reneging as well, so Kantaka has his zombies tear him apart. Kantaka even kills his one living female follower to make her an eternal zombie slave, and even has his own brother Krisna ripped apart by zombies when Krisna finally fights back, all in preparation for Kantaka's ultimate goal; to use Elvire as a ritual sacrifice to give himself the powers of a god and take over the entire world, purging everyone he declares any enemy. Kantaka ends up done in by one of the few servants he hasn't already killed, breaking his voodoo curse and putting all the zombies of his victims to rest.
Any mitigating factors?
Hahaha, no. Kantaka is a hideously awful Bad Boss, cares nothing for his brother, and he has a body count that's well, well past the brutality and scale we need for a horror villain, particularly one from a silly no-budget 70s horror film.
Conclusion?
Keeper. Easy one.
Kantaka and Novak.
Not to sound pushy but anyone answer my question here
?
Yes to Kantaka. I will also hopefully have a present for Duck sometime tommorow.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

Edited by WaryHoglet on May 21st 2020 at 5:13:29 AM