During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Now...for the first today? From a crossover: Wonder Woman/Conan. Conan ends up saving a man who leads him to the city of Shamar: a towering metropolis that is built on slavery. And within are the slave pits....where countless slaves are forced to fight to the death, including the mightiest, the 'Warrior Witch' who resembles someone Conan lost as a child....he and this 'Witch's' destiny become inextricably linked, and pursuing them are...
the Corvidae.
Who are the Corviade?
The Crow Sisters, a pair of crow-like monsters who take human form and first show off their inhuman nature when watching the gladiator games. One drunk man makes the error of bothering one and she promptly bites his fingers off. Anive and Lila have existed since time began. After thousands of years of experience, the Corvidae are bored....except in one thing: Battle. The two have seen that to gamble off unexpected wagers are the most exciting things in existence. So they arrange things to turn friend against friend, brother against brother, start wars to see armies against armies...killing countless to claim trophies and win wagers against one another.
Conan and Diana are their two most recent subjects, the greatest warriors of their age, brought together. The Corviade are also responsible for the gruesome gladiator games of Shamar, the pit mater Dellos obeying them. Anive championed Conan, Lila wagering on Diana. The two try to force Conan and Diana to fight to the death. They obviously refuse...this doesn't please the Corviade, who decide to make Shamar pay for the insolence. "It will pay for your insolence. We will send armies. Multitudes. All will die." Gloating that all in Shamar will die screaming and then "little meat puppets. Little infants. You will fight to the death for our applause." Finding Dellos, they request he lay out the slaves for Conan and Diana when they arrive before massacring them all.
Now, several Amazons have arrived to aid Diana and friends, and are captured, with the Corvidae having them about to be hanged in front of Diana. To raise the stakes, they bring in Conan's lost love Yanna, using her life to force Conan and Diana to battle. But make it clear Shamar will still die, no matter what. They get the better of the Corviade, causing the Corvidae to vow after Shamar, it'll be Cimmeria and then Themyscira to burn.
Conan rides to Shamar to save it, with an army of monsters arriving and the Corvidae gleefully ordering its annihilation. Conan breaks the game again, causing the Corvidae to furiously declare "The wager is forfeit! Raze everything!" Conan and Diana face the Corviade before they can escape and in a final battle, cut the crow sisters down. Conan learns Yanna is already married with children, but is happy she's happy, and Diana and Conan share a kiss before departing to return to their own times...ending as Diana in modern day meets a man who reminds her very much of Conan and asking him to lunch.
Mitigating Qualities?
A standalone crossover, and really over the baseline, with only Dellos possibly keeping otherwise for his actions in the slave pit. But the Corvidae are as vicious as all can be imagined. They try to have a city razed to ashes, gloating over how they'll feast on every man, woman and child there, with no care for anyone, or anything. In anything else? Their only motivation is them being bored. They play this game, willing to kill thousands to millions because it's a way to pass the time and mess with people's lives in the worst ways.
As for their redeeming qualities...no, not really. They don't seem to care about one another, same as working as a single entity or rivals. When Lila is shot in the face, Annive is shocked, but later tells her to stop whining about it and calls her a baby for it. There's nothing resembling redeeming qualities abound there.
Conclusion?
Easy keepers
to the Wonder Woman Candidates. Also, was Elizebet from Ninja Gaiden 2 ever discussed, cause I was thinking of E Ping her at some point in the future.
Gail Simone's crossover?
Yes to the Hot Witch duo (see for yourself
◊) (well, not their true form
).
Edited by ACW on May 15th 2020 at 11:02:46 AM
And I've been looking forward to this one...
What's the work?
A Distant Soil is an epic space opera series by Colleen Doran, one of the finest artists in the business. A combo of science fiction and fantasy, the story is about a race called the Ovanan...androgynous, beautiful, eternal beings, ruled by a corrupt oligarchy known as the hierarchy and based around a religion centered on The Avatar. The avatar manipulates the flow of energy, connective to the Ovanan 'Collective' that touches all their minds. The Avatar can destroy entire worlds, and the Ovanan hierarchy continues some abominable practices: The avatar is to observe the children and any who are flawed are eliminated.
The current Avatar is a man named Seren..who was forced to exile his friend Aeren, a Disruptor. The Disruptor is the opposite of the Avatar, able to control and disrupt energies. Aeren went to earth and wound up married to a woman there. Only two of their kids survived: Jason and Liana who have powers they can't control and end up in an institution. After being separated, they're brought into an intergalactic conflict with a rebellion against Ovanan...the leader of the rebellion, Rieken? Is in truth Seren, who seeks to overthrow the hierarchy from within.
Now, let's talk the worst of the Hierarchy. I give you Sere.
Who is Sere?
Ancient, beautiful and cruel, one of the strongest of the Ovanan, Sere entraps Jason with honeyed words and drugs him so she can torture him to her heart's content. Sere is also a pedophile, who makes blithe comments like ""He was really very dull, weren't you, Jason? Hardly moved the entire time!" She discards Jason when he seemingly dies, his death faked by the rebellion who recover him.
Now, this is nothing but routine for Sere, who has known Rieken/Seren (I know, it's confusing for names, bear with me) since he was a little boy. Bred to be the Avatar they could control, Seren was subjected to control and abuse with the Hierarchy's true leader Niniri sanctioning Sere's predilections in all but official name. Sere abused Seren. Constantly, molesting and raping him as she wished, but lost interest when he grew old enough (which leaves Seren mentally scarred many years later).
When seeking Seren and suspecting something, Sere seeks him at the household of his ally and top commander Kovar. When the household proves reluctant to let her in, Sere massacres them like it's a fun game, teasing Kovar about it. This is when we flashback to the horrific abuse Sere put Seren through....showing him the corpses of the children killed by the avatar, mocking him about being a 'bad little boy' and saying it was his fate if he didn't man up and murder people.
Plotting to wipe out the rebellion, Sere hears of Liana, who is an Avatar herself (her existence is screwing up Rieken/Seren's control)...her reaction? "She's so pretty! Her golden eyes are a rare feature, and she's so young! An infant really... Don't dispose of the child before I've had a chance to have my pleasure." Sere then reveals she has a young attendant she took from the Ovanan nurseries (they're grown artificially), a grievous crime Niniri rebukes her for. Sere cheerfully remarks
she needs 'companionship' and sh so loves little boys. Either Niniri lets her keep the boy, or she'll pay Seren another 'visit.'
To hurt Seren, whose attendant and apparently slave D'mer is actually his lover and his true beloved, Sere brings in her old 'friend' Emeris, D'mer's former owner, so he can assert legal rights to D'mer....Emeris is also a vicious, sadistic rapist an Sere is well aware of this. When cornering the rebellion, Sere even makes it a point to demand that they take enough of them alive for sport.
Eventually they manage to corner Seren and the rebellion, aiming to wipe it out. Sere is gleeful to torture her former charge...but Seren and Jason turn the tables, reversing and disrupting Sere's own energies, frying out her mind and killing her. Sere dies screaming.
Heinousness?
The Ovanan are a really nasty race of space elves, built upon an empire of slavery, eugenics, murder, etc. Sere is one of the top Hierarchy members, and she's bad by their standards. Setting aside the Hierarchy having the avatar wipe out worlds, kill the young children who are genetically impure...that's something Sere shares with the rest, especially Niniri...but beyond that?
Sere is a sadistic torturer by their standards. She loves hurting others and flaunts any laws the Ovanan upper class has. And...she's a pedophile. No bones are made of this, and her abuse is portrayed as sickening and wrong. Sere is a serial rapist of children who has abused Seren and countless other children. She obliterates the HS, esily.
Mitigating Qualities?
The only person Sere has a functional relationship with is Emeris, and that's entirely based off their mutual love for abuse and torture. Sere never remotely shows she's capable of caring about others as people. Her cruelty is the most pronounced thing about her and she gleefully violates every taboo she can as much as she can.
Conclusion?
Keeper. Easily, one of the most twisted characters I've done in a long time.
Edited by SkyCat32 on May 15th 2020 at 11:53:32 AM

It's YMMV because people argue over whether something's mitigating enough or not, or if a character's heinous enough or not. Hell, I'll be EP'ing one character where I MYSELF aren't sure.
Yes to Hercules and Cythonna. Other Continuities and Post-Crisis, respectively?
EDIT: Oh, Children of Valentine. Jackie will handle most of it, but as for Helen, fucking Y'golonac. No, LITERALLY, it's been revealed she was WILLINGLY fucking Y'glolonac. She called out to him, and he was taken with her depravity. That says something about her, no?
Edited by ACW on May 15th 2020 at 4:47:53 AM