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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#212676: May 6th 2020 at 5:03:27 PM

[tup] Baba Yaga and the King.

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#212677: May 6th 2020 at 5:06:45 PM

Yes to Crowe and Kamsa.

After seeing the debate, I'm convinced by Vile and I'm going to throw a weak yes to the witch, but I could be convinced otherwise.

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#212679: May 6th 2020 at 5:40:18 PM

I can see the argument for the witch based on being an AU

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#212680: May 6th 2020 at 5:43:15 PM

Btw lighty genuine question would Kamsa/Kansa count in the original mythology. The crimes of baby murdering are the Same their but I haven't read his stuff to know ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#212682: May 6th 2020 at 6:07:29 PM

yes to Lighty's duo and reading through all of this... honestly if the witch's resources are five dudes and she's burning multiple villages? I'm leaning yes there as well.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#212683: May 6th 2020 at 6:08:36 PM

Ah screw it. If it really is au. Returning to [tup] on witch.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#212684: May 6th 2020 at 6:16:19 PM

[tup] Crowe, Kamsa, and witch.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#212685: May 6th 2020 at 6:18:19 PM

I'll also switch back to a yes to the witch.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#212686: May 6th 2020 at 6:45:45 PM

[tup] to Raymond Crowe and King Kamsa.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#212687: May 6th 2020 at 6:48:43 PM

TBH, I don't know about Kamsa as much in actual Hinduism.

PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#212688: May 6th 2020 at 6:49:09 PM

Did we ever reach a consensus on the Enchantress?

EDIT: [down] [tup] the Boyar.

Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on May 6th 2020 at 10:02:49 AM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#212689: May 6th 2020 at 6:52:41 PM

[tup] Crowe and Kamsa. Special thanks to Mir for helping me find this book.

What is the work? Hellbound Hearts is an official horror anthology inspired by, well, The Hellbound Heart. Expanding the lore of the Hellraiser Mythos, the collection introduces several new characters and Cenobites in different situations, some more bizarre and grotesque than others. One story that stood out from the rest? The Confessor's Tale, but what is it about? Taking place in the fictional Russian feudal region of Kashkent, the story follows Arkady Melanov, an indifferent boy with no tongue who inherited his mother's mysterious puzzle box; stories say his tongue was either removed by a wolf or his own mother when he was only a baby. Because of his lack of speech, guilty people are drawn to Arkady, and they have a tendency to die not long after confessing their sins to him, which in turn unlocks the box's powers more and more. Becoming obsessed with solving the puzzle, Arkady soon gets the chance to meet the worst sinner in Kashkent.

Who is he? The Boyar is a repulsive and hedonistic aristocrat hiding behind the image of a "fair ruler as far as taxes and tithes were concerned". In reality a sadistic Serial Killer known for hanging people outside of his castle walls and leaving them to be eaten alive by buzzards simply for spreading gossip about him, victims are taken to his dungeons and made into guinea pigs for new tortures that were devised to be carried out on local thieves and petty criminals. If that wasn't enough, the Boyar's favorite hobby is to invite young women from neighboring towns to his castle before drugging them with alcohol and herbal liquors brewed by his apothecaries, raping and occasionally killing some of them, ordering Arkady to clear the floors of warm blood after he was done. Proud of the fact that even like-minded psychos within his gang were repulsed by his "physical experimentations", Arkady's own indifference towards violence fascinated the Boyar, and he always tried his best to shock the boy.

"Despite enjoying the freedom from guilt the boy's indifference gave him, his need to feel powerful made him want Arkady to be affected by his deeds. And that was the truth of it."

Rumoured to have gang-raped Arkady's mother, Ekaterina, and buried her alive in his flower garden alongside those who broke the law in the region, the Boyar visited Arkady in his room after killing another one of his many victims, his robes still covered in blood, and reminisced about Arkady's mother, and how she was "different from the rest". Turns out the Boyar did torture and murder Ekaterina, and the second story was correct; her sadomasochistic love for pain inspired the Boyar to become even more of a depraved maniac, declaring:

"She enjoyed the pain. Almost as much as I enjoyed hurting her. She had no limits. Until her, my tastes had been base, ordinary, but she forced me to new levels."

Now that Arkady had his final confession, the puzzle box was finally opened, it was Arkady's destiny to be converted into a Cenobite, happily abandoning his humanity to go "home". The Boyar, cowardly sobbing and begging for mercy, is taken to Hell by Arkady, where he is going to be tortured for all of eternity.

Mitigating Factors? Nada, the Boyar is easily the worst of the sinners. He refuses to feel genuine guilt for his crimes, and his affection towards Ekaterina was nothing but a twisted fascination for sadomasochism.

Heinous? Let's see, aside from Arkady's own mother, the other sinners are: A budding psychopath who killed a pig for fun and planned on killing another person, a man who suffocated his wife to death, a man who touched his daugher and a woman who paid her workers to pleasure her. The Boyar, as the last sinner, is vastly worse than all of them combined. Arkady himself, despite his coldness and future as a Cenobite, never participated in any kind of atrocities perpetrated by the Boyar.

Conclusion? [tup]

Edited by TheMadCr0w on May 6th 2020 at 11:23:22 AM

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#212690: May 6th 2020 at 7:12:40 PM

[tup] Crowe, Kamsas and Boyar

So here's a few quote for me to propose.

" Dante... do you like fireworks? I love them. A brilliant, glimmering fragment of time. The flash begins as a perfectly-ordered chemical reaction... that melts into chaos. Human lives are the same, are they not? As is the universe itself... Blooming, scattering in the moment... And it's only a single moment, isn't it? A unique moment that you can never revisit. That's what makes life beautiful. Don't you think so? But I've spoken enough. It's showtime. I will show you the most beautiful fireworks you've ever seen. The scattering of the cerebral plasma... The splattering of blood... It's art. Perfect, beautiful art of a lonely moment in time. Don't blink. I want this burn into your retinas. Well... the one you have left."
AI: The Somnium Files - Saito Sejima

"I have waited eagerly for this day... Over the past 10 days... I have tasted your fear through the Mark... Thick and syrupy... As sweet as honey... Each savored morsel made me want to smash you to pieces... But... I waited... I am not as foolish to kill a goose that lays golden eggs... AaAaah... But I canNOT... take it anymore... Like crushing riPE fruit... And sipping itS juices... I WAnt to breAK you down... And savor your SWEet fear!"
Mary explaining her motive before attempting to kill Masamune Kujou, Death Mark

What do you think?

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#212691: May 6th 2020 at 7:14:58 PM

Easy yes to Boyar.

The first quote sounds more like Mad Artist stuff, but I'm fine with the second quote.

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on May 6th 2020 at 4:16:03 PM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#212692: May 6th 2020 at 7:16:07 PM

[tup]Boyar

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#212694: May 6th 2020 at 7:32:28 PM

[tup] to the boyar and the second quote

Also the idw da comics weren't began as an au. They were meant to be in canon and were retconned out when Dark Horse got the licence. I don't know how that gets weighted, but still

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#212695: May 6th 2020 at 7:41:10 PM

Yes to the Boyar, Raymond Crowe and King Kamsa. Also switching back to yes on the witch.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#212696: May 6th 2020 at 9:04:12 PM

[tup]Kamsa.

Why so serious?
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#212697: May 6th 2020 at 9:05:12 PM

[tup] to Crowe, Boyar and Kamsa

Edited by G-Editor on May 6th 2020 at 6:08:35 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#212698: May 6th 2020 at 10:04:11 PM

[tup] Crowe, Kamsa and Boyar

Abstain on witch

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#212699: May 6th 2020 at 11:13:12 PM

One I have for tonight now:

What's the work?

Zorro's Fighting Legion is a serial from 1939, and the final Zorro keeper we're aware of. This story takes place in San Mendolito, Mexico. Now, the San Mendolito council is secretly undermined from within by a group of treacherous councilors involved in a fiendish plot to seize control of Mexico. The leader of the plot is the wicked Don del Oro...and the man to save the day is Zorro, and his warriors.

Who is Don del Oro?

As revealed by the very end, del Oro is in truth a council member named Pablo. Disguising himself as Don del Oro, he makes the local Yaqui Indian tribe think he's their god, rallying them as his army to take over Mexico...introduced as Don del Oro by having a man burnt alive in a fire pit, he has a Councilor named Francisco murdered for trying to defend San Mendolito against the Yaqui....which alerts Zorro himself.

Del Oro? Plots to seize weapons to have the Yaqui attack San Mendolito and start a genuine race war, rallying them into a frenzy before trying to lure Zorro's entire legion into a building and blow them up. Failing this thanks to Zorro,del Oro has another man of his killed when captured by Don Diego/Zorro with his trademark: a golden arrow. When another member of the group named Manuel is captured by the good guys, del Toro tries to have him burnt alive in his jail cell. When the good guys use an imposter to throw del Oro off, he simply orders both Miugel and the imposter killed before Zorro saves the day again...Manuel is assassinated in the end, though.

Del Oro arms the Yaquis...but also makes sure their prince, Kala is caught. He plots to hang him to enrage the Yaqui to start the big war, use all the gold he's taking and rally his forces to become the ruler of Mexico. Again, Zorro foils him and saves Kala....Del Oro murders the other co-conspirators to keep his identity secrets but zorro manages to expose him before everyone. Unmasked as Pablo, the Yaqui realize he's no god and turn on him, forcing him back into his own flame pit.

Heinousness?

For a 1930s short? Lots of murder, a large attempted body count, trying to start a race war with full knowledge of the consequences? Yeah.

Mitigating Qualities?

He's...not a complex character. He's a greedy, corrupt politician pretending to be a god to inspire the Natives to kill people so he can get rich and take over the country on the side. No loyalty to anyone, no good qualities whatsoever.

Conclusion?

A yes to Don del Oro

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#212700: May 6th 2020 at 11:30:21 PM

[tup] the Don.


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