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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#212402: May 4th 2020 at 7:44:53 AM

I'll request swapping/locking The Legend of Zelda & The World of Darkness Wednesday.

Also, what's with Everything You Wanted To Know About Adding Complete Monster Examples?

Edited by ACW on May 4th 2020 at 10:45:24 AM

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#212403: May 4th 2020 at 8:17:16 AM

[up] Whatcha mean? Seems like the page has been there for a while.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#212404: May 4th 2020 at 8:20:51 AM

Think its the sandbox which formed Administrivia. I think cutlisting would be okay since the official page is up.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#212405: May 4th 2020 at 8:36:30 AM

I'm just now noticing just how many Tzimisce vampires we have on there. It's kind of boring to a point honestly. I'm beginning to wonder if having a little bit of the Tzimisce Antediluvian in all of them does actually make them more fucked up than the average vampire.

Edited by LoreDeluxe on May 4th 2020 at 8:41:46 AM

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#212406: May 4th 2020 at 8:42:07 AM

Well, if they keep, they keep. White Wolf made them the worst Clan, ergo we follow.

Now, then:

  • Knightfall: Philip IV, upon learning of his wife Joan's affair with Landry de Lauzon, sheds any of his good qualities, viciously torturing and beating Joan's maid for information. Later stabbing the pregnant Joan fatally, Philip is so bothered by the possibility her and Landry's child may live that he orders a purge of infants born around that time to ensure he gets the child. Aiming to destroy the Templars, Philip grows to tyrannize his family, viewing his daughter as a piece of an alliance to be married off and his son as a tool and assassin. Philip tortures and massacres the Templars, having many burnt alive, his hatred and vengeance consuming any traits of who he once was.
  • Stravaganza:
    • Haku, lord of the Orks, is a brute who introduces himself poisoning one of his loyal men with the poison Escine to turn him into a rabid beast in the name of a good fight. Helping with the experiments of the mad elf Golmore to spread Escine, Haku brings his armies down from the mountains, sweeping over kingdoms to massacre all in their path. Haku even kills his own soldiers for sport or amusement during the war, gleefully stating his intent not to stop until he has found a strong opponent, no matter how many nations he annihilates.
    • The elf Golmore is the creator of the poison Escine. Using it to turn the giant Umbers into rabid beasts, Golmore sends them against the human capital of Mitera which kills almost all the population. He then proceeds to poison the Klord people, tainting their water supply to watch the results. To satisfy his curiosity, Golmore is the one who informed the Orks of other kingdoms, knowing the resulting carnage would give him a chance to perfect the results of his own poisons.

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#212407: May 4th 2020 at 8:43:22 AM

To respond to a post a couple pages ago, no one from Breaking Bad or Better Call Saul (at least for now) count. Most of the characters are villains who do terrible things and they all have redeeming qualities. Series with strong Grey-and-Grey Morality are usually not conductive to having CM's.

Edited by WaryHoglet on May 4th 2020 at 8:46:24 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#212408: May 4th 2020 at 8:58:23 AM

@Wary Used to have two actually (the Twins and Jack Welker). Both were cut though and that is probably for the better.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#212410: May 4th 2020 at 9:11:57 AM

[up][up] Yeah I know, the fact that they were cut proves my point lol

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#212412: May 4th 2020 at 9:46:13 AM

[up] Redeeming qualities, I think.

By the way, looking at the writeup for Skin Traffik I think Diabolical Mastermind may be a better pothole for the Executive.

Edited by SkyCat32 on May 4th 2020 at 12:50:31 PM

captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#212413: May 4th 2020 at 10:04:51 AM

[up] Welker was cut because he loves his nephew (I'm personally unsure on that one, but I'm not sufficiently bothered to challenge it), and the Twins did stay until Better Call Saul humanised them quite substantially, I believe)

In regards to Tevinter Nights I'm happy to buy and read that if there's interest.

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#212414: May 4th 2020 at 10:21:33 AM

As the one who called for the cut on the twins? No, they were a terrible example even in the original series and every indication was they loved each other and people just kept ignoring the signs.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#212415: May 4th 2020 at 11:32:56 AM

[up]Yeah I was never fully comfortable with the Twins being here. I figured what I saw must have not mattered and it turned out, it did. I was sad to see Jack go. However, it is clear that he and Todd actually cared about each other in their own weird way. Interesting as I have said before to have a TV universe where as bad as people can be, they still have something that keep them from this.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on May 4th 2020 at 11:33:31 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#212416: May 4th 2020 at 11:38:38 AM

When the show is based around the protagonist finding out he's not as justified as he thinks to do horrible things for his family's sake when the villains also have loved ones despite being brutal criminals you're not looking at a great pool to fish from.

nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#212417: May 4th 2020 at 12:17:35 PM

Have we ever had a CM version of/based on Henry VIII

also, what happened to the writeups for Isla and Negaduck

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#212418: May 4th 2020 at 12:19:37 PM

[up] Isla was included in the batch I believe. Negaduck, I have no idea. I think some one braught up a problem with him, but I don't remember what it was.

Edited by Bullman on May 4th 2020 at 2:27:34 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#212419: May 4th 2020 at 12:23:16 PM

I and Ciao both presented writeups for Isla... don't know what happened to them.

Negaduck got taken down until some things can be clarified, IIRC.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#212420: May 4th 2020 at 12:33:50 PM

Isla's with the batch (hopefully submitted tomorrow); Negaduck's on hold for now.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#212421: May 4th 2020 at 1:56:49 PM

Alright, so my work server's down, it's Monday and I got an EP for a movie that I saw on Shudder now long ago....

What's the work?

Blood Quantum is a zombie film made in Canada, like most of the best things....the twist? The apocalypse has happened and the setting is the Mi'gMaq reservation. The Indigenous peoples there? Are immune to the virus (but not to being eaten)...so on the Red Crow reservation, they've established a good deal of shelter, guarding vigorously against the dead, accepting refugees with power and racial dynamics flipped.

Traylor is a young man with a pregnant white girlfriend who also idealizes his layabout elder half brother Alan, AKA Lysol, who freely admits he's not someone to be looked up to...and then in the film? We see just how much.

Who is Lysol?

son of the reservation leader Joseph, Lysol is the one who acts out nastily....having experienced a number of racist incidents in the past, Lysol believes that anyone who isn't one of the compound should be tossed out, growing to loathe his people and his home culture...now, the Red Crow populace? Screens who comes in rigorously. People with bites are dispatched....Lysol, however, has a rep with his gang as a troublemaker even now and Traylor who deeply looks up to his brother sometimes neglects his family to get himself arrested and spend time with him...which Lysol points out is stupid since he's an asshole not worth idolizing. His words.

Things go south when a young woman enters the compound hiding a bite...Lysol attempts to seduce/molest her and she changes, biting off his penis. This is...really the last straw when the zombie is subdued and it's revealed Lysol may have already been planning to wipe out the compound, moving his plans up in a fury....when Traylor tries to help him, Lysol stabs him, saying he has no family and locks Traylor in the civilian compound...unleashing the zombie with a request to "eat all the dicks in there for me." The compound sucucmbs as the refugees are massacred. Lysol gathers some captive zombies, kidnaps Taylor's pregnant girlfriend and enjoys the carnage. His father is killed, countless people becoming zombies or being torn apart. Lysol takes one woman hostage, using a zombie to intimidate her into giving the good guys false info...and then lets the zombie eat her, killing others in his path to get away as the good guys, led by Traylor, his mother Joss and elderly warrior Gisigu tear through Lysol's men....Joss catches up to Lysol, who attempts to feed Charlie, Traylor's girlfriend to a zombie after killing another friend of theirs personally...gloating he's freed himself...the good guys arrive ad kill the zombies....Traylor stabs his brother and leaves him...Gisigu? Fires a shot into the air and the zombies converge thanks to the noise, closing in on an injured Lysol and eating him alive and screaming.

Mitigating Qualities?

Well, now...it's true Lysol has been subjected to racism in the past. It's true that he...suffered a bit by having his privates bitten off by a zombie. Issue is...there's a strong indication Lysol was already planning to wipe out the compound as he and his gang have the scheme in place already....but regardless? Lysol just has everyone in the compound massacred. Not just the refugees, but his own people and family, as he gloats he has no family. He tries to feed his brother's pregnant girlfriend to a zombie for no reason but cruelty...and he freely admits to Traylor he's not worth looking up to, that he's just a bad person through and through, something he easily proves beyond a shadow of a doubt when he has one of the only outposts of humanity obliterated solely for his own selfish reasons.

Conclusion?

I'd say a solid keep to Lysol

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#212425: May 4th 2020 at 2:09:13 PM

There's also this:

  • Freudian Excuse: Lysol's mother died soon after his birth, and Traylor basically abandoned him.

I'm leaning yes though. Also, Lysol? What's the story behind that nickname?


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