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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#212376: May 4th 2020 at 12:33:48 AM

Oh honestly. Keep [tup] Norton. Having seen this entire conversation. .

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#212378: May 4th 2020 at 1:36:31 AM

[tup] Cho (who was spreading the plague throughout Korea?); Haku; Lauren.

For World of Darkness, Drax wanted me to ask if Nergal's entry was okay.

  • Nergal, one of the three founders of the Baali bloodline, manages to stick out even by their standards. Almost solely responsible for turning the Baali into a Religion of Evil so vile that they make the Followers of Set seem tame by comparison, Nergal ruled a city in ancient Mesopotamia as a king, and unleashed a plague on his own people in an attempt to awaken a sleeping Eldritch Abomination. Moloch, another of the clan's founders, realized just how bad of an idea this was, and actually sold Nergal out to the other clans in a desperate attempt to stop him. Nergal, of course, survived, attempted the same ritual again, and when that failed, went to the New World and declared himself a God to the Aztec people, who named him "Huitzilopochtli." He went on to establish a particularly brutal practice of blood sacrifice and human sacrifice. When the Lasombra-led Spanish Conquistadors showed up, Nergal casually sold his followers out and went into torpor beneath what is now Mexico City, where he remains to this day. Even in the present, the surviving descendants of Moloch seek to stop Nergal and his descendants from breaking the world by creating Hell on Earth. How bad Nergal is can be demonstrated by the fact that nearly half of a bloodline universally regarded as the most malevolent in the entire setting thinks he's a menace and needs to be stopped.

Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#212379: May 4th 2020 at 1:49:16 AM

That's a decent argument from FriedWarthog on Norton—given how little we have to go on otherwise, Faux Affably Evil is the strongest case. At least Hadley projects his brutality outwardly.

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#212380: May 4th 2020 at 3:24:44 AM

[up][up]Nergal looks fine to me. What's the issue ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#212381: May 4th 2020 at 3:26:11 AM

At the very least, do we need the last sentence?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#212382: May 4th 2020 at 3:27:44 AM

Well I mean it's not hurting things plus it demonstrates how much worse he is if most of his own evil bloodline want to take him out.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#212383: May 4th 2020 at 3:31:15 AM

Also, added to the batch:

  • Shaktimaan: The Animated Series:
    • Kilvish was once a disciple of the Yogic Gurus, who he trained under alongside Shaktimaan. A bully obsessed with acquiring power through any means, Kilvish secretly began studying the dark arts, which he used to steal the souls of all of his and Shaktimaan's fellow students after Shaktimaan was chosen over him be the new Yogic Master. After setting up a lair in Indus City, Kilvish acquired a pair of henchmen named Tick and Tock, who he abuses and tortures whenever they annoy him or botch one of his plans to Take Over the World. Not caring what state the world is in so long as he controls it, Kilvish has sent various monstrosities on destructive rampages, bombed the ocean floor to cause earthquakes and tsunamis, and tried to melt the North Pole. Wanting to psychologically torment and demoralize Shaktimaan as well as destroy him, Kilvish has trapped Shaktimaan's loved ones in never-ending nightmares, tried to cause multiple subway crashes just to kill a few children who had formed a Shaktimaan Friends Club, and summoned a dragon to try and murder every child in Indus City. In the finale, Kilvish resorts to poisoning Shaktimaan's mind with illusions of his worst fears, all in an attempt to blind Shaktimaan with so much homicidal fury that he will become sloppy and leave himself open to being slain by Kilvish.
    • Doctor Jackol was a colleague of Professor Gyani, who turned him in to General D'Goze after he discovered that Jackol was selling weapons to terrorists on the Black Market. After escaping from prison, Jackol allies with Kilvish to get revenge on Gyani and D'Goze, being perfectly content to also help Kilvish spread his "darkness" all across the Earth. Jackol purposely tries to kill as many people as possible in his attempts on Gyani and D'Goze's lives, which have involved trying to crash a crowded airplane that Gyani happened to be aboard, and making Mt. Indus erupt, not caring that the eruption would also wipe out all of Indus City. Jackol has also tried to nuke all of Indus City just to kill Shaktimaan; ordered that Human Shields be shot once he no longer had any use for them; lobotomized a man in order to turn him into a mindlessly destructive cyborg Super-Soldier; and threatened to release every "crazy killer" in a prison in order to draw out Gyani and D'Goze. Jackol treats Tick and Tock little better than Kilvish, frequently using them as unwilling test subjects for his experiments, and at one point going as far as to abandon them to die in the erupting Mt. Indus.

Also:
  • The Oracle manga have The Heavy of each, working for Twinrova to resurrect Ganon:
    • Oracle of Seasons: General Onox is a madman who corrupts the very land around him and holds a brutal philosophy of the strong crushing the weak. After running across Link, Onox tries to have him eaten by monsters out of irritation and tries to drain him to death before hunting for Din. Sinking the Temple of Seasons, causing mass havoc, Onox, gloating that the seasonal chaos will lead to the extermination of all life in the world, spends the rest of the time attempting to kill everything in his way.
    • Oracle of Ages: Veran is an evil, body-hopping witch who possesses Nayru to leap into the past. Corrupting a noble dream, Veran callously enslaves the men of Labrynna, having them tormented, whipped and beaten to craft a black tower as a symbol of oppression and cruelty, even intending to do the same to women and children. Against Sir Raven, Veran tries to kill him, even attempting to have him publicly executed to shatter her victims' spirits and trying to have the village wiped out. Even in defeat, she attempts to allow her energy to be used to set Ganon upon the world in sheer spite.

Edited by ACW on May 4th 2020 at 6:40:43 AM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#212384: May 4th 2020 at 4:18:48 AM

Hey guys, just saw the series finale of Star Wars The Clone Wars..... Oh boy was it an emotional one. PM me for more details about who keeps.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#212385: May 4th 2020 at 5:17:48 AM

Alright I’m not sure on Lauren here... he’s got an evil company’s backing at his disposal and he tries to kill... a grand total of four people? I know what he does to his daughter is bad but in the context of being an anime Mad Scientist...

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#212386: May 4th 2020 at 5:21:22 AM

Abstain on Lauren.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#212387: May 4th 2020 at 5:33:44 AM

Found this on YMMV page of the latest Dragon Age Novel, called Tevinter Nights:

Complete Monster: While there are quite a few nasty villains in the book, the stand-out is Ambrose Forfex, the Wigmaker. He is a high-ranking member of the Venatori and blood mage who doses his own slaves with red lyrium in order to magically power his animated wigs.

Page is blocked, so i can't cut it.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#212388: May 4th 2020 at 5:51:15 AM

How does dosing his slaves with a drug make his wigs powerful ?

Edited by miraculous on May 4th 2020 at 5:51:48 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#212389: May 4th 2020 at 6:04:09 AM

Anyone else on Lauren? Honestly leaning no right now from the EP.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#212390: May 4th 2020 at 6:08:26 AM

[up] Hmm, there is a point. I was reminded of Shou Tucker, but then again, Shou didn't have the backing of a MegaCorp. Switch to abstain.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#212391: May 4th 2020 at 6:21:17 AM

[tup] to Queen Consort Cho.

Keep Warden Norton.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#212392: May 4th 2020 at 6:22:50 AM

Tbh the attempts to invoke the "Shou Tucker clause" get used a bit too frequently for my liking... he's literally just a guy lacking in talent as an individual and a lone wolf for resources who crosses the MEH twice as he repeats his experiment on his wife again with his daughter and dog. The fact the army of homunculus soldiers just seem brainless instead of suffering and that they could only be made with the backing of Father himself also really cement just how far out of his weight class he was punching with his two very nasty moments of villainy. This is... not that at all.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#212394: May 4th 2020 at 6:24:26 AM

He DOES kill two people, though- and despite working for a MegaCorp, he is mentioned to not be a particularly respected employee. I know killing two people and experimenting on one is not much, but since there are no other villains in the film besides Brad (who basically does nothing), he has basically no competition.

Edited by MasterN on May 4th 2020 at 6:29:01 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#212395: May 4th 2020 at 6:24:26 AM

[tdown] to Lauren

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#212396: May 4th 2020 at 6:29:05 AM

He's still an anime Mad Scientist and there's certain behaviour we just expect of villains. The daughter experimentations are nasty sure but I don't see him as CM-worthy given what he is. Being the only notable villain will only get you so far.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#212397: May 4th 2020 at 6:40:28 AM

If it was just the experimentations, I would not even have bothered with him. But he does this in addition to killing two people. I was not aware that anime Mad Scientists have a higher baseline standard than other villains- I just assumed every villain has the same baseline.

Edited by MasterN on May 4th 2020 at 6:40:48 AM

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#212398: May 4th 2020 at 6:46:04 AM

Certain things are just expected villain: a slasher Serial Killer will chop up a few people and you'll only see candidates there when they really start wracking up a bodycount, couple their murders with some nasty rape/torture etc.; an Evil Overlord probably has an army he tries to use to conquer other nations... it's when he starts talking about genocide, slavery and whatnot that we start looking at him. In the case of an action anime like this? It's a given the bad guy will kill a few people.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#212399: May 4th 2020 at 6:57:49 AM

I mean the baseline of three people I always personally felt was for low key works. But for genuine archetypes like Evil Overlord, Archdevils And Demon Lords, etc.

You just expect more.

[tdown]Lauren

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#212400: May 4th 2020 at 7:02:15 AM

Alright, I wasn’t particularly passionate about Lauren anyway.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.

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