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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#212101: May 1st 2020 at 11:48:26 AM

They seem to count, but you don't need to run down every episode in depth. It's too much. IT's fine to give summaries or restrict it to standout deeds

Sircray Since: Apr, 2018
#212102: May 1st 2020 at 11:59:41 AM

Sorry... I know that's become a bad habit of mine as of late that I'm trying to keep under wraps, but they didn't seem as long (at least compared to my last few posts) as they ended up looking here when I stuck them in the word counter.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#212103: May 1st 2020 at 12:00:57 PM

Yeah, just two in a row with a ton.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#212104: May 1st 2020 at 12:02:46 PM

Yes to the Shaktimaan duo.

I'm going to go against the grain and say no to Kiyomori; his bodycount seems to be mostly limited to rival Genji ninjas, and I don't think his Bad Boss tendencies are enough to push him past the baseline.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#212107: May 1st 2020 at 1:03:22 PM

Likewise I don't think Kiyomori keeps. Most of his kills are no-name mooks and the few crimes he get that push him otherwise don't really seem to stick out too much in the setting. I don't care if Yoshitsune isn't a sadist—raping a woman and then turning her over to the pleasure of all of his men sounds leagues worse than anything Kiyomori does onscreen even if he lacks the technical bodycount. I'll say yes to our animated Indian cartoon duo, though. Those sound delightfully over-the top.

I have a Christopher Lee keeper for us today, maybe possibly but probably not really the last from him:

What's the setting?

The Pirates of Blood River was one of Hammer's two forays into the pirate genre. Blood River Pirates (and its counterpart The Devil Ship Pirates) were characterized by swashbuckling swordfights, perverted pirates, and Christopher Lee as its villain (because why not?). The films made money, but apparently not enough to justify their mammoth costs compared to other, lower-budget productions (most of which weren't blowing up pirate ships) and these two films kinda stand as forgotten relics. Devil Ship Pirates doesn't have anyone—Chris Lee isn't bad enough—but Blood River might turn up someone who skims by. Let's meet Captain LaRoche.

Who is Captain LaRoche? What has he done?

A (French!) pirate captain who comes aboard an island on the Isle of Devon populated by the Huguenots in search for gold and booty, LaRoche is as black as a blackguard gets. Discovered by our protagonist Jonathan Standing, who escapes a penal colony over an incident that wasn't exactly his fault, Jonathan makes an uneasy bargan with LaRoche to get back to the Huguenot settlement on a "peaceful mission." LaRoche seems charming, affable and the Lovable Rogue type up until he walks up on two of his men strangling a farmer to death and attempting to rape their daughters, to which he punishes those responsible by...telling them to consider themselves "severely reprimanded" in a deadpan, apathetic tone, barely even turning his eye toward the dead man and his daughters.

Yes, when Jonathan is horrified by the fact that pirates are, in fact, murderous, LaRoche plunges from there. When the villagers understandably try and resist the occupation of the already-murderous pirates, LaRoche has everyone who can fight back killed and occupies the village, deciding to punish the innocent for their retaliation, having two random villagers executed on the spot and promising to kill two more for every day that goes by they turn up nothing. LaRoche even continues to allow the lascivious attentions of his pirates to run rampant, at one point interrupting two as they chase a woman to sort it out properly: a Duel to the Death, the victor of which LaRoche coldly hands the woman as a reward to do with as he pleases.

LaRoche eventually loses his patience and promises to massacre everyone in the village, sparing no man, woman or child, and is literally right about to have everyone slaughtered before Jonathan's father breaks and finally reveals the treasure—the church's statue which is actually gold. LaRoche finally leaves, but takes Jonathan and his father hostage while forcing his men to carry the statue. LaRoche sheds no tears over all his dying pirates as he marches them through the forest and when one of them finally balks, LaRoche shoots him dead. This finally prompts the others to turn on LaRoche, triggering a final duel in which LaRoche kills his treacherous crewmate but ends up killed in turn by a thrown sword.

Any mitigating factors?

Not really. LaRoche is kinda just skimming the baseline, I admit, but he has a pretty decent body count—particularly in comparison to his contemporary from Devil Ship Pirates—and I admit his worst deed (trying to have the village massacred) loses a bit of his punch when he just leaves after, but I'm more inclined to dismiss that under pragmatism (LaRoche says he "never kills without a purpose"—even if that "purpose" is to kill someone for annoying him). LaRoche goes more than just threatening to kill the village and is seconds away from moving upon the order before they finally break, so I think that and the other crimes sprinkled in just tosses him over.

Conclusion?

Hey, Chris Lee pirate CM? Why not?

Edited by Scraggle on May 1st 2020 at 2:31:31 AM

PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#212108: May 1st 2020 at 1:09:28 PM

[tup] LaRoche.

Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on May 1st 2020 at 4:09:38 AM

hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
#212109: May 1st 2020 at 1:09:46 PM

[tup] Kilvish, Jackol and Laroche

~ACW I added part about Aegisthus.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#212110: May 1st 2020 at 1:16:26 PM

Yes to LaRoche. Man Lee has played a lot of keepers.

Edited by Bullman on May 1st 2020 at 3:19:58 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#212112: May 1st 2020 at 1:28:16 PM

[tup]La Roche

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#212114: May 1st 2020 at 1:35:52 PM

[tup] to the boss, the captain, and the Shaktimaan duo

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#212115: May 1st 2020 at 1:41:24 PM

Hehel, please add the rewrite to the Drafts.

Sure to pirate Lee.

Bullman, it's funny, a few years ago? Lee had none, and I just knew he HAD to have some somewhere.

Any others lemme know. I wanna get a Lee CM under my belt.

Edited by ACW on May 1st 2020 at 4:44:49 AM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#212116: May 1st 2020 at 1:44:10 PM

[tup] Henry the Boss, Sircray's duo and the captain.

What is the work? Mechanical Violator Hakaider (talk about Names to Run Away from Really Fast) AKA Roboman Hakaider is one of the most famous and darkest original tokusatsu films. A spinoff of Kamen Rider's lesser-known cousin, Kikaider, the film retells the story of Hakaider after he is awakened by blurgars and finds himself in an apocalyptic future ruled by an angelic tyrant, now it's up to our '90s Anti-Hero to join La Résistance and liberate the country from this dystopian dictatorship.

Who is he The very definition of Light Is Not Good, Gurjev is the elegant overlord of his own "modern Eden", a false utopia called Jesus Town, ruling it as a totalitarian state. An ardent believer in The Evils of Free Will, Gurjev orders his head of security, Michael, and the State Sec to capture any dissenters for him to lobotomize and remove all of their emotions via a brain implant, even children, labeling them as "criminals" in need of a "rebirth"; those unfortunate enough to get caught see it as a Fate Worse than Death, and one of the dissenters even tries to commit suicide. Michael is also allowed to execute any soldiers who failed to sacrifice themselves for the state. Revealed to have been Hakaider's original creator, Gurjev saw him as a failure and abandoned the android, replacing him with an obedient weapon, Michael, an extension of his own will.

After Gurjev succeeds in slaughtering the resistance guerillas, Hakaider single-handedly destroys most of Gurjev's army, frees the prisoners and defeats Michael in combat, cornering him in his own "paradise". Like all fictional dictators, Gurjev tries to corrupt Hakaider, promising him even more power if he joins his army, calling it his destiny, and when his plan fails, Gurjev simply tries to execute Hakaider with a Mechanical Abomination. Baffled by Hakaider's determination and endurance, Gurjev quickly drops the mask of serenity and pathetically begs for his life, and even after Hakaider decides he is not worth killing, Gurjev still tries to shoot him in the back, resulting in his obvious death.

Mitigating Factors? Gurjev is a curious case, he seems very passionate about life, peace, law, order and "protecting" those he lobotomizes, considering himself "their only father". Truth be told, the guy is nothing but a ruthless Control Freak with a penchant for reducing innocent people into child-like Empty Shells when they disobey him, his reason for liking flowers says it all:

Look at it... Do you know why the flower is beautiful? Because they don't question their masters... All people on Earth should be like flowers, that way they will live in peace and love... You and I will grow flowers together, and we will make them bloom, they will represent the people we will protect... I can give you even more power, following me is your destiny.

Gurjev's hypocrisy and Insane Troll Logic is even lampshaded by Hakaider's Love Interest, Kaoru, before she was killed by Gurjev's men.

We must remove power from that tyrant... He talks sweet things like peace and love, but what he's really doing is... our country has become a nation of docile sheep, and the ones considered enemies of the state? A probe is inserted in the middle of the brain and a microchip is implanted there, and it sends signals blocking the brain cortex and its electrical circuitry, eliminating all willpower.

Heinous? The resistance guerillas (aside from Kaoru) were planning on overthrowing Gurjev to gain power for themselves, too bad they were way too inefficient to make that happen. In contrast, we get too see every second of what Gurjev does to his own people.

Conclusion? [tup]

Edited by TheMadCr0w on May 2nd 2020 at 8:11:19 AM

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#212117: May 1st 2020 at 1:46:54 PM

[tup]The cap, Sir's duo, and Henry.

IPP Wick Check created.
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#212120: May 1st 2020 at 1:58:12 PM

[tup]gurjev

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#212122: May 1st 2020 at 2:05:08 PM

[tup] to Kilvish, Dr. Jackol, Captain LaRoche and Gurjev.

Edited by MGD107 on May 1st 2020 at 2:05:29 AM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#212123: May 1st 2020 at 2:11:02 PM

[tup] Kilvish, Jackol, LaRoche and Gurjev.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009

Total posts: 326,048
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