During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yes to The Shrike and Surtr.
Isn't it six counting the Marvel Comics one?
Edited by Bullman on Apr 28th 2020 at 8:17:46 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadShoot, you're right. I got the animated one, buit forgot the Earth-616 one.
Question still stands: How many are the evil god, and how many just have the same name? (Edit: Okay, with Mir's answer, it is 5 now.) I'm removing Medusa though unless anyone can provide a good case for including the Soul Eater one.
Funny how the OG Surt was a GDV.
Lighty, was the Pentex duo the one who were wondering how anyone would want to RP as them, or is that your final entry?
Edited by ACW on Apr 28th 2020 at 9:20:03 AM
Yes to Annis, Luther, Tanya, Carver, Culliford, Zettler, Surtr and Shrike
No to Rodrigue.
Abstain on Barnes.
What is the final tally on Atomic Skull, should I write up him up or not?
I have another Star Trek comics bad guy, this one from the Golden Key comics, from issue 36, A Bomb in Time:
Who is Dr. Njam? What has he done?
Dr. Njam is a Federation scientist who decided to blackmail the Federation. He murders a colleague, Dr. Lax, and steals an N Cycle Bomb, a bomb powerful enough to destroy a planet. Njam contacts Professor Andres, a pacificist scientist who works on the Federation's time travel technology. Njam gives the bomb to Andres and Andres goes back in time to 1960s Earth, hiding on the set of a movie, to prevent the bomb from ever being used.
However, Njam has set the bomb to go off in 24 hours (Andres doesn't know this) and sends a message to the Federation, that the N cycle bomb will destroy Earth unless he receives one billion Federation credits (it's always confusing whether the Federation uses money or not). Spock finds and confronts Njam and figures out Njam killed Lax and manipulated Andres. Spock notes he will die too, but Njam does not care, seeming to value money above his own life and the lives of others. Spock arrests Njam and Kirk finds Andres and reveals Njam's treachery, with Kirk taking Andres and the bomb back to the future, saving the Earth.
Is he heinous by the standards of the work?
As I said before the standard here seems a bit higher than usual for Star Trek tie in materials, there is a couple of different planets threatened by out of control machines (a machine designed to build cities keeps on doing even when their creators want to it stop, threatening the planet, a defense system goes out of control and destroys most of the population of a planet, a malfunctioning cyborg threatens the population of another population). There is another issue where aliens feel like they have been kicked off their homeworld a long time ago and now will use war to reclaim their home planet).
Also, Spock has the Enterprise destroy a planet with plant creatures on it, who eat humans, thinking they could become a threat to the galaxy, but I do not think they were sentiment (they did not communicate with the Enterprise crew).
There is an immortal alien named Malok who is bored and emotionally tortures people for his amusement, it's said it has done this a lot, but we only see him do this to the Enterprise.
There is a human named Chang who escaped Earth to flee the Eugenic Wars and accidentally traveled through time, landing on a planet. The other members of the crew want to live peacefully, but Chang finds that boring. He flees into the mountains, learns to create illusions and uses his powers to conquer the planet. He wants to steal the Enterprise to adapt its tech and create an empire, but when Kirk foils him, he decides to just destroy the Enterprise out of spite.
There already 2 monsters in the Golden Key comics series, Flamm a drug dealing slaver who enslaves people on an asteroid and threatened to kill his slaves when Kirk confronted him and there is Niklon, an alien who destroys a city on his home planet and enslaves the rest his people.
But Njam blowing up Earth would kill billions in the past and prevent billions from existing in the future. He may not have a ton of panel time, but he has enough personality to count.
Any Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?
Nah.
Final verdict?
Keep him.
Edited by Overlord on Apr 28th 2020 at 6:55:23 AM
Yes to Njam. Also...embarrassed I misspelled a name: It's Zhyzhak, not Zhyzhyk.
My final werewolf duo...from Rage Across New York, I give you the Seventh Generation...the Seventh Generation was a Wyrm Cult operating primarily in New York that focuses on one thing: the abuse and exploitation of children, especially sexual abuse. The Seventh Generation is a monstrous cancer on the world. It's target? Children. The weapon? Defilement. There are multiple branches and I'll be discussing the heads of two of them. The Castes: "The Seventh Generation was divided into several castes. The Warriors defended the cult. The Snatchers abducted children for use in rituals. The Medical caste conducted experiments. The Military, Government, and Business castes meddled in each of those spheres, using them to keep their enemies away."
The heads of the Medical and Busines Castes? Chester R. Van Gelding and Dr. Gunther Draggerunter.
Who are van Gelding and Draggerunter?
Chester van Gelding is a businessman who is the eldest of the Seventh Generation leaders and one of the most powerful, born in the age of Dutch sovereignity over New York...in his power in the Business caste? He helps keep the cult...he keeps the experiments going, provides for the abuse and torture of children...and in the personal side of things? Van Gelding runs dinners in a Long Island manson where he invites others to big, fancy dinners that are also child sacrifices or sex rituals for the Seventh Generation to see them irreparably damaged. His way of remaining undetected? He marries a young woman, adopts a child (he himself is infertile) and alters the child's face to resemble his. Then he kills the child and takes its place. He also defiles sites to Gaia with glee and sells the artifacts like cheap trinkets, with him helping to keep the Seventh Generation's operations going. As Van Gelding puts it? He does well by doing evil.
Second is a head of the Medical Caste, Dr. Gunther Draggerunter. Besides abusing children and sacrificing them to the Wyrm, Draggerunter is an imposing, elderly, bearded man...not the top leader of the medical caste, but Draggerunter leads their 'SWAT' Team who suppresses victims. Besides seeing them abused, Draggerunter uses his position of authority and power in the cult to ridicule abuse victims and crush their stories. He gaslights children with psychology to damage them even more, and if they try to go public, he simply crushes them, making sure they're not believed. Draggerunter stops at nothing to use his tales as a doctor to ensure that children will not only not be believed but harmed even worse, and dragged through the public eye as liars, so that the Wyrm's corruption will spread.
King Jonas Albrecht, I'm happy to say? Destroyed the Seventh Generation in New York, but couldn't stamp it out everywhere....but let's just say he did because holy hell.
Mitigating Qualities?
In heinousness, I think they're the worst of the named members of the Seventh Generation. The only one who can stack with them is Lord Akbright of the Snatchers who actually gathers and kidnaps kids, but the Snatchers are former victims who were never allowed to heal and their abuse has manifested in them growing twisted and agonized, unable to do anything but hurt. Van Gelding and Draggerunter have zero such excuses, both are sick monsters with van Gelding making the abuse work and Draggerunter occupying such a uniquely twisted niche even in World of Darkness, with some personal touches there.
The Seventh Generation is just uniquely fucked, being a child abuse cult, with these two standing well over in unique screwed upness. Like...okay, the Black Spiral Dancers? They make pretty great enemies to fight, Pentex is a multinational evil megacorp...I have no idea who the fuck would want to work The Seventh Generation into their games as enemies. At all.
Conclusion?
Just yes. Just...wow, White Wolf. What the hell.
Edited by Lightysnake on Apr 28th 2020 at 7:04:29 AM
Yeah, Chang is a human con man who pretends to be a powerful wizard to donimate a planet, but all his powers are just illusions created by technology. By the end of the story, Chang tries to destory the Enterprise, but on Star Trek that is generic villainy, Klingons and other aliens would try to blow up the Enterprise in Star Trek TOS, heck in TNG random Romulan commanders would try to blow up the Enterprise-D, which had a 1000 people on board rather than 400, including children. Trying to destory the main starship of a series is generic villainy in Star Trek.
Which Chang is this? The main one I remember from Star Trek was Christopher Plummer's character in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, who doesn't count.
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Surtr (funny how the movie starred another Surtr), Njar, And the Werewolf dudes
BTW, I brought this up before, but what is up with this writeup:
Sherlock Holmes fanfiction The Ghost Map: Both Sebastian Moran and the Serial Killer he hires count. Moran, just to get Sherlock Holmes's attention, hires Dr. Jacob Land to cause a cholera outbreak in London. This outbreak results in nearly 150 deaths, including that of Holmes's friend Wiggins, just to make it personal. When Holmes confronts the two, the killer delivers a Breaking Lecture, and taunts Holmes about Wiggins's death; Moran stabs Holmes with a syringe and leaves him to die.
I'm willing to give the fic a quick read to rewrite it. from the sounds of this, I feel like just making it about Moran and cut the serial killer.
Edited by nwotyzal on Apr 28th 2020 at 8:35:20 AM
Surtr, Njam, Gelding and Draggerunter
I'm 90% sure that Soul Eater Medusa isn't supposed to be actual Medusa and just has the name since a lot of villains in soul eater are named after villains from stories. I'm also pretty sure that Fire Emblem Surtr is just a guy named Surtr and not the god, I'm currently in the middle of the campaign where he's the bad guy and nothing has said that he's a god.

Sure to Surtr.
The real question is, of the 5 (this one; this one; this one; this one; this one), how many are the actual evil god, and how many just have the same name?
For that matter, should we really count Medusa Gorgon from Soul Eater the same as Medusa from myth?
Edited by ACW on Apr 28th 2020 at 9:13:38 AM