During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Lizzid people!
Whateley
Yes to the above.
Alright, despite the influx of effort-posts, this is a story I just finished that I've been reading for about a day and a half, so here's one last proposal for tonight.
What's the Work?
The Joker's Circus
is a Batman fanfiction that takes place in the Batman: Arkham Series universe, albeit a somewhat AU-take. The story centers around a teenage girl named Rosemary "Rose" Quinn who, after being raped and subsequently murdering her assailants and numerous other people, gets acquitted to Arkham Asylum. Soon afterwards, she, along with multiple of the asylum's other teenage patients, are broken out of Arkham to partake in a twisted tournament of sorts to decide which of them will become the protege of one of Gotham's most infamous supervillains...
Who Is He? What Does He Do?
The Condiment King. Just kidding, it's the Clown Prince of Crime himself, the Joker. In this incarnation, he actually survived the events of Arkham City, Batman having given him the cure to his illness just in time, and now, 18 years later, the Joker, knowing he won't be around forever, seeks out an heir to inherit his criminal empire when he's gone.
Introduced being sent to Arkham after his latest criminal stunt, in this case massacring everyone in a retirement home and arranging their corpses to spell out the words "Age is just a number, and so is the amount of people making up this message.", the Joker quickly takes Rose under his wing in a sense, becoming one of the few people she actually trusts in the asylum. Soon breaking out of Arkham, Joker promptly sneaks out Rose and 18 of the asylum's other teenage inmates and brings them to Arkham City, where they are invited to partake in a televised live tournament known as "The Joker's Circus", in which they will be tested to decide who is worthy to become his successor. The contestants are divided into teams and every few days, will participate in a challenge that will teach them valuable lessons to assist in their life of crime, with the catch that for every challenge, one of them will die; if no one dies in the challenge, the losing team will have to vote which of their teammates to kill off. And in another catch, one of the contestants is none other than Robin (Tim Drake), kidnapped by Harley and forced to partake in the tournament, with the Joker threatening to detonate bombs around the city if he doesn't comply. The city is also protected by a shield barrier strong enough to repel even Superman, preventing anyone, including Batman, from entering.
For the next several weeks, the contestants are put through the various challenges, which range from learning to rob a bank and escape an asylum, to more twisted affairs, including: being injected with a lethal poison and having to scour Arkham City to find a cure; being forced to go without sleep or food for three days, then having the exhausted contestants try to kidnap an abducted Quincy Sharp, which leads to the delirious contestants ripping him apart in their exhausted frenzy; afflicted with grievous injuries like being burned, hit with acid, or injected with venom to teach them how to treat their wounds with limited supplies. Nearly every challenge results in one or more of the contestants getting killed, either by each other or the Joker himself, with the Joker also giving the contestants free rein to slaughter his mooks throughout the tournament to further test their skills, with he himself offing his henchmen at random throughout the tournament. At the end of one challenge, with one of the contestants selected to be killed, the Joker orders Robin to personally do the deed. When he initially refuses, the Joker responds by detonating a bomb at a popular park, killing scores of people, including children, and threatens to do the same to an orphanage, finally coercing a reluctant Robin to strangle the contestant to death, the event leaving him deeply scarred.
With most of the contestants dead, the Joker abolishes the teams and issues the next challenge, releasing Robin into the sewers and sending the contestants to capture him dead or alive, allowing the winner the permission to torture him in any manner they desire. At the same time, he gives Robin a choice: kill one of the contestants, and he'll be able to allowed to leave Arkham City. Robin instead forms a brief alliance with one of the contestants, Violet, helping her escape with a bracelet that holds the key to destroying the shield barrier. However, Robin is shortly afterwards taken away by Harley Quinn.
Finally, with only two contestants left alive, Rose and Edward, they are sent to participate in the final challenge, making their way through an obstacle course in an underground amusement park. During the challenge, Rose, failing to take her medication pills, ends up reverting to an appearance resembling that of the Joker, freaking out Edward, leading to a fight that ends with Rose killing him. It's then that the Joker reveals the truth: Rose is his daughter. Basically, during the events of Arkham City, while the Joker was suffering from his venom illness, on the chance he didn't survive, he conceived an offspring with Harley to continue his legacy; luckily for him, he did survive, but decided to continue with the pregnancy anyways. Harley produced twins, but Rose's brother died at birth; ironically, it was Rose who inherited the Joker's appearance while her twin was had a regular appearance. Afterwards, the Joker forced the doctor, Erin, to look after the girl and keep her birth a secret, threatening to kill her loved ones if she didn't comply. Eventually, the Joker produced pills that would change Rose's appearance to look normal and had her sent to an orphanage, forcing Erin to enroll there as a nun, and secretly kept tabs on her for nearly two decades, awaiting the day she inevitably ended up in Arkham so he could initiate his tournament and finally mold her into his successor; the other contestants were simply there to help refine her skills as a criminal.
With Batman and the police finally breaking down the barrier, the Joker, Harley and Rose flee to an abandoned toy factory, where it's revealed what happened to Robin: the Joker and Harley spent weeks torturing him, physically and mentally, while also injecting him with serums and mutilating his face into a permanent grin, naming him "Chuckles". Batman soon tracks them down and, enraged at the Joker's actions, engages him in a vicious brawl at Crime Alley, eventually paralyzing him. Rose intervenes and knocks out Batman, much to the Joker's rage, as he reveals that he wants to die, feeling his work is completed. He and Rose then share one last "tender" moment as the Joker has Rose promise him to "deliver the punch line" before snapping his own neck and committing suicide, dying happy to have molded Rose into his image.
In the fic's epilogue, Rose has taken over a criminal gang, the Jokerz, ready to follow in her father's footsteps, while Robin, having managed to recover somewhat from the Joker's torture, takes up the mantle of the new Batman, the two ready to continue where their respective mentors left off.
Mitigating factors?
The Joker's relationship with Rose is....weird, as one would expect of him. The thing is, he actually does show some moments of compassion towards her, with even Bruce saying that by the Joker's standards, he was actually a good father to her. But ultimately? The Joker "loves" Rose in the sense that she's a continuation of his legacy, an extension of himself. When Rose asks the Joker if he would have left her alone had she chosen not to become a criminal, he flat-out says he wouldn't have and would have found a way to mold her. He has no issues putting her through the rigorous trials of the tournament specifically to drive her insane, mutilating her and almost getting her killed dozens of times over, which she even points out. The Joker goes from calling her affectionate nicknames one moment to striking her with broken pavement and calling her an idiot the next. During his final clash with Batman, the latter calls him out, telling him he created Rose "not out of love, but out of fear and chaos".
Now, there is a moment in a flashback scene detailing how Batman rescued the Joker. After getting the cure, the Joker briefly became sane, to which he has a My God, What Have I Done? moment at all the atrocities he's committed, even begging Batman to kill him. However, this only lasts when he's sane, and promptly fades once his insanity returns, with the Joker seemingly not remembering it. With the way it's presented, it's sort of the Joker's pre-insanity self briefly surfacing, and is pretty much an entirely separate person from his normal self.
Otherwise, no. He's abusive to Harley just like he always is, physically and verbally pummeling her throughout the story, and when he finds out Robin killed her, his reaction is mere annoyance that Robin "broke his favorite toy". Any other moments of him being cordial are just him being Faux Affably Evil. He's handily over the heinous standard, too.
Final Verdict?
Your call.
Edited by Clown-Face on Apr 3rd 2020 at 10:37:56 AM
Why so serious?
Joker
So here's my next Danganronpa Gaiden: Killer Killer candidate, Rei Shimizu.
Who is Rei Shimizu and what does she do?
Rei Shimizu is a nurse in Ongo Hospital, one of the medical facilities during the Tragedy. A woman obsess with parasites, when Future Foundation came to investigate the mysterious death of a victim who seemed to have died from a scalpel, it was later discovered by Takumi that Rei was the killer. Confronting her after confessing his love to her, Rei reveals that she implanted the victim parasite eggs during a surgery last year, allowing the parasites to feed on the victim and to grow, which as shown by the way Rei displayed her parasites is a painful process. Once the parasites grow big enough, Rei would kidnap the victim and surgically murder them to extract the parasites, having stop by Takumi to do it with her latest victim.
Now expose, Rei decides to reveal the rest of her parasite collection, showing her mad obsession include implanting on them herself, before summoning her entire collection into a massive parasite symbiotic that manage to be multi stories tall. Unfortunately for Rei, Takumi was able to slice the parasites and her, putting an end to her mad intrigue.
Heinousness:
A Serial Killer obsess with parasites, Rei places her victims into a painful process where she implants her victims with parasites that would grow inside the victim for a year, and as shown by Rei, is not a pretty process with them growing and absorbing you more and more as time passes. Considering also how many parasites she had to the point it can be multi-stories tall, it's clear she had way more victims then the two she shown, most likely to be in the double digits.
Mitigating Factor:
While the series has a high heinousness standard, I think Rei manage to find her own niche as well, with her parasite modus operandus, a slow and painful process that the victim suffers for a year before she kills them for harvest. Also, considering her low resources due to not even having a connection with any Ultimates, I think Rei is still able to strike out on her own. At the very least, her parasite murder method gives her own uniqueness from the rest of the series, especially considering she's just a one-shot villain.
Final Verdict:
I also think this is an easy keeper.
Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Apr 3rd 2020 at 11:45:27 AM
Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Old Whately, someone I also overlooked.
In many ways he's kinda standard for a cultist Cosmic Horror baddie - but then you remember he was one of the earlier examples, at least as far as Lovecraft related or inspired stuff goes.
Weren't we in the middle of doing a Cthulhu Mythos page by the way? Like what we did with Sherlock Holmes? Or did I misread that?
Polar: You are correct.
8 EP's in 3 pages. In a short period. Cool it people please.
Danica; David; Tanaseda (over centuries would be a high body count); Iron Klaw; Ted; Whateley; Joker; Rei.
I just thought of something: Would anyone have a problem with moving the Danganronpa stuff to Other Media, Multimedia? The Killer Killer duo is exclusive to the manga, so they can be exclusive to that page (like the Wolf Creek Lit duo), but, like Mick, Junko and Monaca can go to Multimedia, like so:
- Danganronpa franchise:
- Junko Enoshima is a despair-obsessed teenager seeking nothing less than the complete destruction of hope. Growing bored with life due to her incredible analytical abilities, Junko used her manipulative prowess to force her high school's student council to kill each other; and then the fallout to drive the rest of the students into a brainwashed frenzy. Kidnapping the kind-hearted teacher Chisa Yukizome, Junko orders her lobotomized her to turn her into her slave and drives the 77th class into Ultimate Despair by murdering their beloved classmate, Chiaki Nanami. Humiliating, blackmailing and breaking anyone in her way to reach her goal, Junko commands the entire population of reserve students to commit murder-suicides, resulting in a catastrophic number of casualties. Erasing the memories of her surviving classmates, Junko forces them into a cruel game where they are made to betray and murder one another, hoping to break every last bit of hope they hold to in their minds. When she is eventually discovered, Junko brags about killing her own sister to keep her plans exciting, and when she fails to break the minds of her victims, opts to ignore their offer to give up her ways and chooses to kill herself, seeing nothing but excitement at even her own death. Even after her passing, Junko's devotion to spreading misery continues as she creates an Artificial Intelligence in her own likeness to continue her torment. Unwavering in her love of suffering, Junko passed no chance to showcase just how many people she could subjugate to utter torment.
- Ultra Despair Girls: Monaca Towa is the true leader of the Warriors of Hope and the aforementioned Junko's equally evil partner. Even before meeting Junko, Monaca manipulated her four troubled friends into attempting suicide for her amusement. As the daughter—and killer—of mogul Takuichi Towa, Monaca used her position to create an army of Monokumas and aid Junko in her world conquest, while blackmailing the Towa Group into compliance. Years later, Monaca brainwashes every kid in Towa City with special helmets, then unleashes them and her Monokuma army onto Towa City. Having convinced her four friends that all adults are Demons, she begins the Demon Hunting game, in which the Warriors, aided by the children and Monokumas, kill as many adults as possible. To rile up the adults, Monaca shows them videos of their loved ones being tortured. She later attempts to execute three Warriors for failing her, and sexually assaults a disobedient Nagisa Shingetsu to break his spirit. Finally, she attempts to get Komaru Naegi and Haiji Towa to break the brainwashing controller and kill all the kids to frame the adults for their deaths and start a war with the Future Foundation, and tries to trick Komaru into thinking that her parents were killed to get her to comply. In Danganronpa 3, Monaca kills Miaya Gekkogahara to take her place, then, when confronted, flees into space. Underneath her kind demeanor and promise to create a paradise for kids, Monaca, like Junko, is devoted only to spreading despair.
OR:
- Junko to multimedia.
- Killer Killer duo AND Monaca to AniManga
- Monaca to Video Games.
OR:
- Junko, Monaca, Killer Killer duo at AniManga
- Junko alone at Visual Novels
- Monaca to Video Games
Y'all decide.
Edited by ACW on Apr 4th 2020 at 8:48:08 AM
Also:
- Danganronpa Gaiden: Killer Killer:
- Rei Shimizu is a nurse who secretly sacrificed her patients to fulfill her morbid obsession. An addict of parasites, Rei would implant their eggs on victims to breed them in a painful and slow process that lasted for a year, before killing them to extract the parasites. When her latest victim Hana was investigated, Rei played innocent, while secretly trying to kill another patient she has also placed parasite eggs on. When Takumi managed to figure her out and stop her attempted murder, Rei reveals to him her operation, showing her massive collection of parasites she extracted from previous victims before merging with them to try killing Takumi and use his corpse as another parasite nest.
- Ted Chikatilo, known as the "Million Killer", is as a member of Ultimate Despair as an infamous bomber who's one of Future Foundation's most wanted criminals. Owning the title of Ultimate Pyrotechnic, Chikatilo has a fascination with explosions and violence, using the Tragedy to his advantage to turn people into "beautiful fireworks". Responsible for a number of bombings and coming off his latest killing spree where he murdered a platoon of Future Foundation agents, turning one into one of his "art pieces", Chikatilo sets his sight on Killer Killer for bragging rights. Knowing Future Foundation was planning to lure him out, he tried to trick Takumi and Juzo, disguised as him, into fighting each other before coming out and attacking the two. When Takumi managed to thwart his attempt, Chikatilo became more aggressive, killing countless people around him, before trying to blow up Takumi, his partner Misaki and anyone around in a wide range explosion. A narcissist of carnage, Ted Chikatilo is one of the worst criminals in the world of Danganronpa.
It’s been at least a week since Duncan from Geostorm was proposed and given upvotes
but I’m not sure as to why he wasn’t proposed earlier unlike Dekkom, whose effort post can be found here.
~Tyk 5919 Care to comment on Duncan? I just want to make sure before I get the troper to write up his entry.
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.@Draxterrus: Same reason why I didn't EP the keepers from the live-action TMNT movies. He's The Mole and an Evil Brit. That's basically his character in a nutshell. He was very bland and I didn't bother because the guy he worked for was behind everything.
But this isn't the first time the Big Bad and The Dragon both counted, so I don't mind him going up.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.Now, since The Outsider adaptation ended....
What's the work?
The adaptation of the Stephen King novel, 2020 has given us a miniseries on HBO that adapts the novel. Quoth the Wiki page...The plot concerns a local little league coach who is accused of the gruesome murder of a child, but incontrovertible evidence puts him both at the scene of the crime as well as 70 miles away when the crime was committed. The cops investigate and it turns out the creature...just may not exactly be human...Enter The Outsider, 'El Cuco'
Who is El Cuco?
Named for the Mexican bogeyman, El Cuco is an ancient creature, possibly the only one of its kind, who feeds upon suffering. It does this on rather wide scales, with its first MO being tot ake a pillar of the community and imitate them down to the DNA before staking, abducting and murdering a child via rape and eating them. The individual is then arrested with ironclad DNA evidence against them, and El Cuco remains in the community to soak up all their pain, even the pain of the accused killer as they rot in jail, abused and despairing.
Terry Maitland, the latest accused, is gunned down, and El Cuco attacks a detective named Jack Hoskins, revealing another thing he doe: to 'infect' his slaves, to make them act via his will, whether it be to bring him food or otherwise...any attempt at resistance is med by lurid hallucinations and pure agony. In this case, Jack finds El Cuco give him visions of his dead mother to savagely beat him for failing to stop the investigation. Detective Holly arrives in ton and it turns out she has pursued a number of very similar cases, lots of dead kids with similar odd facts to Maitland'. El Cuco also has Jack kill an innocent fisherman to feed it before having him try to murder the investigators.
Enslaved, Jack finally finds the courage to kill himself as Ralph and Holly confront El Cuco, El Cuco tormenting Ralph with visions of his dead son. They manage to overcome the beast and seemingly destroy it, Ralph smashing its skull in.
However...as the credits roll, it turns out Holly has a similar cut to the one El Cuco gave Jack...letting one wonder if the entity is truly gone...
Heinousness?
Serial child rapist and murderer with nasty personal crimes in there. Heinousness is no issue here.
Mitigating Qualities?
The miniseries gives the entity a different characterization and the plot proceeds differently from the book, so we're okay there. But besides that...El Cuco/the Outsider is a sadistic beast who enjoys its feedings, being much, much more like Pennywise that just a predator. It savors the emotional agony it causes and is very keen to use innocent beings as proxies and pawns.
Conclusion?
Easy yes for the adaptation
