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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#208001: Apr 2nd 2020 at 4:23:11 PM

[up][up]Weve already trimmed it a few times. I think like utrom shredder its now the max it can be.

Edit : I mean Sherlock moriarty. Not game of shadows moriarty.

Edited by miraculous on Apr 2nd 2020 at 4:26:36 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#208002: Apr 2nd 2020 at 4:24:16 PM

That works. Please add to the Drafts and I'll play with the potholes tomorrow.

Sherlock!Moriarty is still over 200, but considering how much he does, that's probably okay. What [up] said.

As for Mal, is the canon setting conducive to those crimes?

Edited by ACW on Apr 2nd 2020 at 7:29:24 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#208003: Apr 2nd 2020 at 4:28:47 PM

Some villains just delight in going over the top with their evil.

So size is an issue there.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#208004: Apr 2nd 2020 at 4:29:57 PM

I suppose. Hell, we have other TD fanfic examples.

By the way, Monaca is Cristina Valenzuela’s first CM. So add her to C Ms By Actor, I suppose.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#208005: Apr 2nd 2020 at 4:35:03 PM

You can go ahead and do that yourself if you'd like N.

ACW, The setting is certainly not and this is why I generally stay out of fan fic examples like this. User is going the "reimagining route"—I never really agreed with the way we set the rule—but the thread as a whole decided it's an acceptable way for a candidate to be produced.

Edited by 43110 on Apr 2nd 2020 at 7:37:25 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#208006: Apr 2nd 2020 at 4:47:35 PM

Well on the plus side it's not a mlp darkfic so theirs something. [lol]

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#208007: Apr 2nd 2020 at 4:53:19 PM

@ACW: TD is aimed at preteens but it is one of the most famous examples of What Do You Mean, It's for Kids? on Teletoon/CN. Interns are implied, if not outright stated to had died. With one intern being eaten alive by scarabs in one episode. There are characters in the show that are explicitly murderous. And honestly this version of Mal is just a less "clean" version of the one in canon who was still pretty sadistic.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#208008: Apr 2nd 2020 at 4:59:04 PM

Browsing the fic has the word “fuck” thrown around and jokes about people dying in kids’ shows is nothing new.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#208009: Apr 2nd 2020 at 5:06:17 PM

Yeah. Attempted murder is a thing in the show. And profanity.

[tup] Mal.

Edited by AustinDR on Apr 2nd 2020 at 5:09:28 AM

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#208010: Apr 2nd 2020 at 5:08:17 PM

About the fanfic EP's...is there not a rule against Ron the Death Eater submissions? With someone like Mal I'm fine with a fanfic version of them qualifying because they're already main villains in canon, but I feel like a fanfic that makes a canon character who was clearly not a CM a CM we should generally be scrutinizing them really heavily for Ron the Death Eater Hate Dumb stuff that shouldn't be listed

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#208011: Apr 2nd 2020 at 5:10:37 PM

Adaptational Villainy isn't the same as Ron the Death Eater, there's a fanwork song with a version of Monika from DDLC who counts when her canon self is a million miles from this.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#208012: Apr 2nd 2020 at 5:12:24 PM

Alright so I looked at my entry for Mad Hatter and Red King and since the South Park Fan Fic, Walls Trilogy, no longer has a trope page since its now deleted, I'll tweek to so that the entry will have a link to the unfinished Wall Trilogy's first fan fic Within These Walls for people who want to read it.

So here is it:

  • South Park fan fic Within These Walls: Mad Hatter and Red King are a pair of pedophiliac killers who mainly prey upon children deliverers. They would lure these deliverers to their hideout before carving their signatures, Xs and Os, on their eyes before raping and killing them; Skyla was the only one to have survived their depravity, while they killed her family. They're also willing to target children who aren't deliverers, such as when they were raping Karen McCormick and carving an X onto her left eye before attempting to kill her.

Still the fact that I got this pair from a South Park fan fic to qualify has got me optimistic about the possibility of finding any potential candidates from SP fan fics if I ever spot one. I guess that its okay so long as the SP fics take place in an Alternate Universe instead of the SP canon.

Edited by G-Editor on Apr 2nd 2020 at 2:16:22 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#208013: Apr 2nd 2020 at 5:12:59 PM

I think it depends, largely on how it's achieved and done. A fanfic that explores things in a legitimate manner as opposed to just hating a character

WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#208014: Apr 2nd 2020 at 5:15:17 PM

[up][up][up] Laconic of Ron the Death Eater is literally "A morally good/neutral character in a work is portrayed as evil or a jerkass in fanworks, often due to the fans' personal opinion of them." So actually that fanfic would completely fall under RTDE.

[up]Personally I would prefer not to have heroic canon characters who are turned evil in fanfics listed at all because I think those kind of fics are usually very silly and its a waste of time to list them but I'm not in charge of this thread or anything close obviously so I just wanted to bring up the subject

Edited by WaryHoglet on Apr 2nd 2020 at 5:21:55 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#208015: Apr 2nd 2020 at 5:22:35 PM

It would be RTDE if it was based on the author hating the charachter and making them a monster. Rather then just having a story where the charachter is a monster.

Even if they are silly, believe me when I say that the works quality ain't a factor here. Cough Nemesis Cough.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#208016: Apr 2nd 2020 at 5:24:28 PM

[up] The problem isnt the quality though, its that in many of these fics the author is just taking a character they dont like and completely changing their all personality traits to make them a Designated Villain and at that point it can barely be called a representation of that character anymore

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#208017: Apr 2nd 2020 at 5:27:20 PM

Being fair, Mal in the original Total Drama was pretty firmly a villain. This stuff sounds darker than the original but not extraordinarily so—I'd be more concerned if there was stuff like actual rape, like that one Frozen fanfic—so I'm okay with this Mal going up. Most of our fanfic grievances have to do with Torture Porn fics and darkfics that turned canon characters evil for shock value. If there's an actual plot behind the atrocities, there logically shouldn't be a reason for us to turn up our noses at candidates like this.

We've cleaned out almost all of those examples, anyway—the few left we kept on a technicality since the fics themselves averted simply existing to showcase a Ron the Death Eater.

Edited by Scraggle on Apr 2nd 2020 at 6:32:44 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#208018: Apr 2nd 2020 at 5:27:32 PM

And in those cases we can rule it out. Hence why we aren't talking about a charachter who's a CM in a fic but not in Canon every other week, but alot dosent mean every. There are plenty of fics out there that don't fall under RTDE, but have a charachter who dosent count in Canon count there.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#208019: Apr 2nd 2020 at 5:40:50 PM

I'm going to sit this one out, when I hear about our fan fic keepers it tends to make me want to point out the litany of them we currently have up that I think need to be vaporized.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#208020: Apr 2nd 2020 at 6:16:56 PM

Also a yes for Lewis.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#208021: Apr 2nd 2020 at 6:17:08 PM

Let's just move on from fanfics. Speaking of sherlock Holmes.

What's the work ?

Sherlock Holmes: Zombies over london by Stephen Mertz

Sherlock Holmes faces perhaps the greatest challenge yet in his long-running war with his arch-enemy Professor Moriarty—the living dead walk, hungry for flesh and doing the bidding of the evil professor! From a dirigible carrying a deadly cargo high in the sky over London to a sinister castle lurking in the beautiful English countryside, the Great Detective and his friend Dr. Watson battle to thwart Moriarty's latest scheme to wreak havoc and loot one of the world's great cities. Thousands of lives hang in the balance, and it will take all of Holmes' incredible deductive skills to figure out just what a young writer named H.G. Wells and the German teenager Albert Einstein have to do with Moriarty's plans

Who is Professor James Moriarty?

I dunno why this is such a common Sherlock Holmes plot but I guess here goes

Anyway the book begins with Holmes and Watson racing to save Watson's wife Mary whose been kidnapped by Moriarty. Moriarty is using her as a hostage and intends to kill her if they don't stop foiling him. Anyway they say fuck that and go to reduce her where they discover moriarty's minions are zombies.

Moriarty has stolen an experimental drug which increases a person's strenght thought at the cost of their mind being destroyed and them becoming flesh seeking monstrosities yoked to his will. He tries to unleash them on Holmes and Watson but their able to free Mary and get out of dodge.

They discover that Moriarty has done this to dozens of people having zombifed them for his purposes. Moriarty intends to sell this to both sides of a war, allowing them unstoppable soldiers thought at the cost of sheer destruction.

Anyway after two of Moriarty's men do a kidnapping scheme of their own involving Elbert einstein. Moriarty has them murdered as well as to send a message to Holmes that he's commimg for him.

Now we see the full evil of Moriarty. To test the destructive nature of the zombies. He unleashed them on a small nearby village using his zepplin and had them disembowl, rip to pieces dozens of men, woman and children.

He captures Holmes and gloats to him his final plan and how he'll make his nemesis suffer. He's going to unleash the zombies onto london. The sheer carnage over the entire city they wreck will clear it out. Allowing him and his men to steal every valuable in it. Ordering his execution, Holmes defeats his mook and him nd Watson escape in their own Zepplin and take on Moroaryy's v Zombies and men, rounding them up and disabling them. Moriarty in his own zepplin duels them, only for them to crash theirs into his (and jumping out before obviously), presumably killing him and ending his threat.

Mitigating factors ?

Hes pure sociopathically evil. Nothing more, nothing less. Hes even willing to gloat to his nemsies about how he's beaten him and treats his men awfully.

Heinous standard?

Oh yeah.

Turns dozens into monstrous beings where their in constant agony , kills his own men, massacres a village including the kids by having them ripped to pieces and his final plan threatens the lives of thousands of londoners in a scheme to enrich himself.

Conclusion?

[tup]

Side note: What is up with Sherlock Holmes cms and zombie. This us like the fifth moriarty cm to do with it and theirs also Gatherford.

Edited by miraculous on Apr 2nd 2020 at 6:18:11 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#208023: Apr 2nd 2020 at 6:34:40 PM

[tup] another Moritary.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#208024: Apr 2nd 2020 at 6:38:43 PM

[tup] to trimming Moriarty.

It probably doesn’t matter, but who do we want the "one of the most dangerous" label to refer to? Blackwood or Moriarty?

[down]It’s not. I was just curious. We don’t have to do anything.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 2nd 2020 at 6:58:50 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#208025: Apr 2nd 2020 at 6:44:37 PM

Why is that important to leave as a note exactly?


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