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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#207926: Apr 2nd 2020 at 8:07:34 AM

Question: If Tomb Raider is to get its own subpage, do the Top Cow comic entries go there or should we add a link to the Top Cow subpage?

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#207927: Apr 2nd 2020 at 8:14:19 AM

It usually goes there on it's own section

Watch me destroying my country
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#207929: Apr 2nd 2020 at 8:23:48 AM

So it appears that the CM entry for 6 Underground has the entrant spelled wrong (should be Rovach, not Rochav). Suggesting new draft for correct spelling.

Original:

  • Complete Monster: Rochav Alimov is the cruel dictator of Turgistan. Ruling the country with an iron fist by keeping his people in poverty and murdering others, Alimov gasses an entire city during a medical event in order to keep his people afraid and in line. After his four generals are killed by the Ghosts, Alimov shoves four of his soldiers off the tallest building in Turgistan out of paranoia. Once a rebellion breaks out thanks to his brother Murat, Alimov leaves his men to die as he escapes, even ordering his chauffeur to run down innocent protesters in the way. Knowing that his time as president has come, Alimov orders his men to gas Turgistan, specifically hospitals and schools, just to leave Murat with a ruined country to rule over.//

New:

  • Complete Monster: Rovach Alimov is the cruel dictator of Turgistan. Ruling the country with an iron fist by keeping his people in poverty and murdering others, Alimov gasses an entire city during a medical event in order to keep his people afraid and in line. After his four generals are killed by the Ghosts, Alimov shoves four of his soldiers off the tallest building in Turgistan out of paranoia. Once a rebellion breaks out thanks to his brother Murat, Alimov leaves his men to die as he escapes, even ordering his chauffeur to run down innocent protesters in the way. Knowing that his time as president has come, Alimov orders his men to gas Turgistan, specifically hospitals and schools, just to leave Murat with a ruined country to rule over.

Edited by k410ren on Apr 2nd 2020 at 11:24:35 AM

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#207931: Apr 2nd 2020 at 8:29:02 AM

Aren't we have several pages, that shares entries, like Superman page, Batman page, Spider-Man page and ec?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#207932: Apr 2nd 2020 at 8:35:23 AM

This is true.

EDIT: Also, FYI, for corrections like Rovach, those can just be requested. Just make sure to fix the YMMV if applicable.

Edited by ACW on Apr 2nd 2020 at 11:45:58 AM

NattesNovgrel from The Middle of Misery, South of Iowa Since: Apr, 2020
#207933: Apr 2nd 2020 at 8:46:15 AM

Are the comics based on properties not owned by Marvel or DC that they published (I.e. GI Joe and He-Man) on the Marvel or DC pages? If not, I think it can be its own separate entry. Just mention that it was published by Top Cow, or do something like “for the Tomb Raider comics published by Top Cow, go here.[link to the Tomb Raider comic page]”

Edited by NattesNovgrel on Apr 2nd 2020 at 11:49:13 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#207934: Apr 2nd 2020 at 8:49:00 AM

Yes to Vymes, N, I don't think that entry needs to be longer than Junko's.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#207936: Apr 2nd 2020 at 9:05:33 AM

Also I’m extremely skeptical of Dogatie at the moment. From my own research he seems to have been driven legitimately insane by not being able to handle an Earthborn person being so loving. Can someone chime in here? I’m open to this being a willing choice to be evil but we’ve had cases like Gigas, Rotwang, etc. where the love is still there, in spite of what they become.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#207937: Apr 2nd 2020 at 9:10:35 AM

[up][up][up][up]Thing is that leaving Top Cow Tomb Raider comics out of Tomb Raider page would be flat out wrong, as they are directly based on Tomb Raider games, to the point of having 3 issue arc, which was an adaptation of the most recent game at that time.

At the same time Tomb Raider The Series directly tied up with Top Cow Shared Universe, to the point that Lara Croft appeared in Witchblade before her own solo series.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Apr 2nd 2020 at 7:12:24 PM

NattesNovgrel from The Middle of Misery, South of Iowa Since: Apr, 2020
#207938: Apr 2nd 2020 at 9:36:18 AM

Question: shouldn’t the image for the Fallout page be one of the two images we have for Frank Horrigan (specifically the first one)?

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#207939: Apr 2nd 2020 at 9:42:16 AM

I tried to get that one up on Image Pickin' but people said that we need the artist's permission and I never got a response.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#207940: Apr 2nd 2020 at 9:47:13 AM

Changed the entry a bit.

  • Danganronpa Another Episode: Ultra Despair Girls: Monaca Towa is the true leader of the Warriors of Hope and Junko's equally evil partner. Even before meeting Junko, Monaca manipulated her four troubled friends into attempting suicide for her amusement. As the daughter and killer of mogul Takuichi Towa, Monaca used her position to create an army of Monokumas and aid Junko in her world conquest, while blackmailing the Towa Group into compliance. Years later, Monaca brainwashes every kid in Towa City with special helmets, then unleashes them and her Monokuma army onto Towa City. Having convinced her four friends that all adults are Demons, she begins the Demon Hunting game, in which the Warriors, aided by the children and Monokumas, kill as many adults as possible. To rile up the adults, Monaca shows them videos of their loved ones being tortured. She later attempts to execute three Warriors for failing her, and sexually assaults a disobedient Nagisa Shingetsu to break his spirit. Finally, she attempts to get Komaru Naegi and Haiji Towa to break the brainwashing controller and kill all the kids to frame the adults for their deaths and start a war with the Future Foundation, and tries to trick Komaru into thinking that her parents were killed to get her to comply. In Danganronpa 3, Monaca kills Miaya Gekkogahara to take her place, then, when confronted, flees into space. Underneath her kind demeanor and promise to create a paradise for kids, Monaca is as devoted to spreading despair as Junko.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#207941: Apr 2nd 2020 at 9:48:46 AM

That looks fine N and after doing more research and talking this over with others, I'm seriously leaning no for Dogatie and quite concerned about the way the EP is writing off his relationship with his wife and the Earth's government.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#207942: Apr 2nd 2020 at 9:55:58 AM

Dogatie came up years ago and we found real issues.

Yeah. Concerns.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#207943: Apr 2nd 2020 at 9:56:35 AM

Kaz, what's going on here? Can you shed some light on this one please?

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#207944: Apr 2nd 2020 at 10:00:12 AM

Switching to abstain on Dogatie for now.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#207945: Apr 2nd 2020 at 10:00:16 AM

Uh switching to abstain on him.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#207946: Apr 2nd 2020 at 10:13:48 AM

Having just read and re-read his monologue, it's really hard to upvote him when even the MC himself concludes that he's not a monster but merely a "man with a twisted heart".

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#207947: Apr 2nd 2020 at 11:02:04 AM

Crow would you mind posting it here so everyone can see it.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
NattesNovgrel from The Middle of Misery, South of Iowa Since: Apr, 2020
#207949: Apr 2nd 2020 at 11:13:13 AM

Going back to Judge Holden, how is this for a quote?

“Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent.”

Edited by NattesNovgrel on Apr 2nd 2020 at 2:17:09 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#207950: Apr 2nd 2020 at 11:15:43 AM

I don't quite think that works for a CM quote, unfortunately.


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