During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Irena, Ullrich, Korbitt, Rogsam and Yuguro Musa, the Cabreros and Christian Grey. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Brinkman.
to Rogsam and Yuguro Musa, Miguel and Alvarez Cabrero.
V
Looks like Modie isn't going up.
I'll do the Ibbe writeup soon. I've been pretty busy but I'll find some time tonight.
Showtime!
I'm not 100% no to Molech but given the OP had prior overplayed the crimes of another villain they attempted to get up and there's so much to question with him, I think it would be best if we allowed for a full on evaluation process before letting him be written up. That said, if he does wind up keeping, I like your writeup.
No to Brinkman, sounds like a standard kid's film villain with a plot that would be worse if it was made for a more mature audience but is hampered by the setting.
Christian Grey... well, I guess we're now discussing a 50 Shades fan fic. That's all I'm commenting on the matter.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
The fact someone decided to make an Urban Fantasy fanfic for 50 Shades Of Gray is just funny to me. That ain't even an insult.
Edited by Kylotrope on Mar 25th 2020 at 2:19:11 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Phoebe Spengler
The Draftsman of Doom
Cabreros and Christian.
Brinkman.
I don't want to add to the flood of effortposts at the moment, but when there is enough space, I will have an effortpost for a movie directed by my cousin.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Mar 25th 2020 at 9:25:46 AM
Rawr.
Re: Molech:
Okay, I'm curious. Who had I played up the heinousness in the past to try to get someone nominated? I frequent this thread so little I'm genuinely shocked I can have a reputation here. Especially since the last time I came around I was arguing against a CM who had a Pet the Dog moment.
As for the character, he's not played for laughs. He does seem like he's a conscious attempt by the author to avoid Evil Is Cool by making him spiteful, odious, and ultimately pathetic. He is, however, played as an unhinged threat. No one's laughing when he's around.
If you consider "being jealous of black people for slavery because it made them stronger" thing disqualifying then so be it. That's a judgement call for individuals.
Edited by Larkmarn on Mar 25th 2020 at 9:33:17 AM
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Irena, Ullrich, Korbitt, Rogsam and Yuguro Musa, the Cabreros and Christian Grey
Brinkman
Uh... who the hell is Molech? I went back and skimmed about the last 10 pages and 43110 is the only person I can see even mentioning him.
Larkmarn, the other candidate you tried to put up was the Yakuza villain who the EP presented as being much more autonomous in the orphanage attack than videos of the game indicated he was. For Molech, half of the stuff about him seems so silly I'm in half a mind to say the author just intended for him to be a CM-parody just too pathetic to be taken seriously enough for this trope. There were also a litany of mitigating factors listed for the dude. All in all, I'm just not comfortable going "Yeah, put him up" years after he was originally posted on without more vetting.
Edited by 43110 on Mar 25th 2020 at 9:48:33 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
How. In god's name. Can you remember that. I literally can't remember that character. I'm legitimately impressed with your random memory.
Truth be told: nothing so inherent to my memory, Falcon posting to your Molech EP got me clicking around the pages back then ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Showtime!
Abstain on Rogsam, per his feelings about his son
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Eh, I'm going to pretend it's your brain. Like have some sort of... new... type... of mind...
Anyhoo. I've said my piece. Leave it in the thread's hands. I don't really care (as evidenced by not bothering to do a writeup for years).
Edited by Larkmarn on Mar 25th 2020 at 9:57:43 AM
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Alrighty then, I appreciate the effort put in to the EP (love ones with a sense of humour) but if that's all there is to it I've gotta say no... he might say he controls his men through "fear and money" but if there's nothing that actually indicates mistreatment, I'm inclined to believe his friendship with... okay, "Black Scott"? is genuine. Also for the silliness thing I'm not sure I can take him as played seriously enough when in the height of his villainy people are making a statue of him with a small dick. The silliest candidate I can think of that I put up, Dokurobey: stops being funny when shit gets serious, contrasting his drunken-sounding banter stopping when he declares humanity shall be turned into fuel for his immortality. Hate it because Laughably Evil is my favourite type of CM but this skews a bit too Played for Laughs for me.
Goku Black
For uh Rogsam could we please discuss him more. Since we seem to totally brushing that one and and his relationship with his son off
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Umm...Rogsam and Yuguro? I'm reading that an here's the issue...it barely has info on what they do that's heinous. It barely sounds like they DO anything. There's no real bodycount I can glean from the EP, which is more a giant plot summary and I'm worried people are just blindly upvoting because it's a long EP, nevermind how the EP basically lists a bunch of mitigating qualities but decides they don't count. Heinousness and mitigating issues, and I know for a fact Nahoko Uehashi, the writer, very, VERY rarely writes villains without mitigating qualities, if ever (depending on Damiya in the novel of The Beast Player
Yes to the Rainbow six candidates. The Christian grey one I'm not going to vote on. Absolutely not to brinkman and it still concerns me you can't seem to grasp heinousness after at least four years here, Future.
The rewrite to Lois...fine, guess so. Klavice, don't fish like that, we're not talking about AA having serial rapists, why do you keep doing this?
Lighty raises a good point and I'll admit I was a bit too focused on discussing Molech when I was voting, no to Rogsam and Yuguro.
Voting no to the Morbito candidates and Molech.
The Draftsman of Doom
I didn't vote on the Morbito candidates before, because I didn't see the EP. I vote no.
Abstain on Moloch.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Mar 25th 2020 at 10:39:16 AM
Rawr.
Goku Black
morbito duo.
Yes to the Cabreros and Christian. Abstaining on the Morbito duo. No to Brinkman.
@43: Yeah, reading over the EP, it does seem like Molech may be Played for Laughs somewhat; thinking it over, the thing about respecting black people seems redeeming as well.
Edited by falcontalons on Mar 25th 2020 at 3:42:46 AM