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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#206052: Mar 19th 2020 at 6:06:18 AM

Here's my Jinxyy write-ups (barring the Condemning Us to Help candidates), but first, it seems that my counterpoint about Houston and why I think that mitigating factor doesn't hold up. Here's DemonDuckOfDoom's concern about him and here's my counterargument.

  • Evangeline: The titular character is a 9-year old sociopathic girl who hides her inner unchildlike depravity under an innocent behavior. Killing her family's fishes and dog, Evangeline sexually molested her friend Emily, threatened to reveal the whole thing if Emily so much as talked, forced her to do her homework and forced her to give her money. In the meanwhile, Evangeline abused her 6-year old sister Audrina as well, molesting her too, lying about her origins, and finally killing her when Audrina reveals to their mother Leslie Evangeline's abuse. When Leslie attempted to kill her in retaliation, Evangeline gaslighted her into thinking she was the one to blame, before promptly framing her for her crimes, getting away with her deeds.
  • Life has no Guarantees: Michael Andrews is a drug dealer and Elizabeth's boyfriend. Upon settling in Elizabeth's home, Michael became extremely abusive to Elizabeth and gave her beatdown for the pettiest reasons, not stopping even when Elizabeth's children are around or even watching. When alone with Elizabeth's 6-year old Natalie, he made her "touch her". When Elizabeth's 14-year old daughter Caryn confronts him about it, Michael threatens to kill her and her whole family (and to rape Natalie as well) if she doesn't have sex with him. Forced to flee when Elizabeth caught him in the act, Michael gives her another beatdown, scars her, kidnaps Natalie and threatens to kill Elizabeth's youngest child Shane if he reveals that he kidnapped Natalie. Viciously beating down Natalie, Michael leaves her for dead, with little comeuppance for her deeds.
  • Sacrifice (archive) : Satan is summoned by a misotheistic woman called Rebecca Cecilia Mallory, who wanted him to resurrect her dead daughter Anastasia Hope Mallory. Requesting "great personal suffering" in exchange, Satan first horribly destroys Rebecca's eyes, ripped off her ears, destroyed her nose, ripped off her tongue, skinned her alive and permanently paralyzes her. Satan then fulfills his part of the bargain, resurrecting Anastasia, fully aware that the latter will not recognize her mother and flee of terror in front of her now monstrous appearance, before leaving Rebecca, who is still alive and conscious but unable to do anything.
  • The Unwanteds: The evil spirit, implied to be named Maeve, is summoned by teenagers Valerie "Val" McCoy, Tabitha "Tabby" Meyer, Brooke and Leila Sanford, who hoped to see their respective wishes fulfilled. First accomplishing Leila's wish of being powerful and confident by possessing her, the spirit manipulates Leïla into alienating herself from the rest of the group, before fully possessing her and killing any trace of Leila in her own body. Later on, when called forth by Tabby, Brooke and Val, the spirit accomplishes their wishes by slaughtering their families, notably leaving Leila and Brooke's grandparents terrified even in death, with "only their faces left undamaged and free of blood".

That being said, your opinion on Houston's mitigating quality ?

Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Mar 19th 2020 at 2:30:30 PM

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#206053: Mar 19th 2020 at 6:12:31 AM

[up]I'll keep my yes on Houston, based on your counterargument.

KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#206055: Mar 19th 2020 at 6:16:22 AM

One last thing about Castlevania; I doubt Sala would count even if he did have Moral Agency; he just would not be heinous enough. In a series where you have a serial child killer, a corrupt bishop who burns an innocent woman and doesn't care about effects it brings on a village, or Dracula himself who wants to destroy humanity... I said, I doubt we will ever get anyone. And that's okay.

Edited by emperors on Mar 19th 2020 at 9:18:54 AM

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#206056: Mar 19th 2020 at 6:23:30 AM

No to Houston. Seems the work thinks his partner Bryan is worse so I find it hard to say he passes the exceptionally heinous part of this criteria.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#206057: Mar 19th 2020 at 6:28:36 AM

Switching to no, for Houston.

[tdown] President either.

GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#206058: Mar 19th 2020 at 6:32:54 AM

I'd say he still does. Rape is already rare even in New Hope : Ursula was raped offscreen but before Bryan and Houston came in the picture, that was all. Bryan and Houston, in the meanwhile, are serial rapists. That is a new low even in New Hope. Most of Bryan's stuff was done alongside Houston, hence why I effortposted them as a couple instead of just dealing with Houston.

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#206059: Mar 19th 2020 at 6:40:17 AM

But Bryan goes to lengths that even Houston doesn't like and all of his worst crimes are shared with him.

[up]That strengthens the argument he doesn't stand out.

Edited by miraculous on Mar 19th 2020 at 6:41:20 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#206060: Mar 19th 2020 at 6:43:10 AM

It's alright. He's going to be mentioned in Bryan's writeup anyway.

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#206061: Mar 19th 2020 at 6:49:58 AM

[tdown] to the President, who i think may have been brought up and downvoted before

None of the Ygy pictures work for me

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#206062: Mar 19th 2020 at 6:52:22 AM

I think that maybe have been a different president. Maybe the one from kingsman (Not my proudest moment arguing for him honestly)

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#206064: Mar 19th 2020 at 7:22:22 AM

[tup] to Adompha and Dwerulas, Satan, "Captain" Simone Simonini, the Evil Spirit, Dr. Paula, Bryan, Avalzaunt, Namirrha, the Mist Man, Ke-Pa, Boyar Valcar, Häxa, Queen of False Faces, Film!Saruman and White Bone Demon.

My condolences YAM, take as long as you need.

A late happy birthday to Mir.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#206065: Mar 19th 2020 at 7:24:31 AM

Well the next two weeks are going to be busy honestly considering most of us are going to end up stuck at home with only this to to.

Edited by miraculous on Mar 19th 2020 at 7:27:24 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#206066: Mar 19th 2020 at 7:42:36 AM

[up] There's lots of other things to do besides effortposts in this forum. Even if you're stuck inside the house. :/

I do understand that everyone (except me since I work in a grocery store) is cooped up in their house, but try to cut back on how many effortposts are listed here each day a little bit. I know this forum moves very fast, but we're at a point where there's between five to eight pages added every day.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#206067: Mar 19th 2020 at 7:52:44 AM

[tup]Sauruman, Demon, Houston

[tdown]President

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#206068: Mar 19th 2020 at 7:53:51 AM

[up][up]It's okay I don't have at planned for today expect the one I already did.

Their is one I've been meaning to do for awhile though which I'll get to in the weekend.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#206069: Mar 19th 2020 at 8:12:03 AM

I have a quote for Azog the Defiler.

" This one dies first. Then the brother. Then you, Oakenshield. You will die last. Here ends your filthy bloodline!"

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#206070: Mar 19th 2020 at 8:12:25 AM

Don't like it.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#206072: Mar 19th 2020 at 8:13:25 AM

Also, does anyone know the kill tally for Adrian from The Invisible Man (2020)?

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
#206073: Mar 19th 2020 at 8:13:28 AM

Condemning Us to Help write-ups :

  • Condemning Us to Help: Even in New Hope Academy for Behaviorally Challenged Adolescent Girls, full of physically and mentally abusive staff, these two manage to be uniquely diabolic :
    • Dr. Paula is one of the doctors working in New Hope. Under her control, the girls are viciously abused physically and mentally, either by the aids working in the academy or by Dr. Paula herself, whose 3-hour long daily "sessions" with the girls are daily, personal humiliations of each girl by bringing up their past, with no sympathy whatsoever for anything they went through (notably blaming Anah, who was raped by her stepfather for causing her own rape). Mental abuse also includes being isolated in a straitjacket. Physical abuse includes stripping and beatdowns for the pettiest of reasons, such as putting duct tape over Athena's mouth and hands, starving her for the entire day, before removing the duct tape the next day, in full awareness that when ripped off the next day, the duct tape would remove skin. When Ursula refuses to break under her abuse, Dr. Paula has no problem abusing even more the other girls until she breaks. Despite claiming to have good intentions, Dr. Paula proves to be a delusional, racist, homophobic and bigoted monster.
    • Bryan is one of the aids working in the academy, and proves to be even worse than many of them. Alongside fellow aid Houston, Bryan is introduced as an even more depraved aid than the already abusive Adam, Leonora, and Aaron trio, pinching and slapping any girl who looked at them and slapping, screaming at, and denying "privileges" (such as food or only running six miles instead of more) for a day to any girl who cried. When unable to break Ursula, Bryan and Houston raped Rivkah, Rhea, and Jessa. When Athena attempts to prevent them from raping Anah as well, Bryan strangles and almost kills her. Later on killing the youngest girl, Claudia, Bryan horrifies even Houston and proves to be uniquely horrific even amongst the monstrous aids.

J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#206074: Mar 19th 2020 at 8:15:59 AM

[tup] to Saruman. Another one for the record books.

May be based on the EP though if too many elements from the extended editions are taken into account, but still a yes nonetheless.

@Lighty So is this just exclusively the extended editions? His death was not featured in the theatrical version of The Return of the King at all.

@Yam Sorry for your loss.

Happy Birthday miraculous!

@ACW I know the Hobbit trilogy came after, but if were going by chronology, should Azog be first instead? I think I know the answer though.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 19th 2020 at 8:17:06 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#206075: Mar 19th 2020 at 8:24:23 AM

I would have Azog first, though I think the fact that Saruman was in both trilogies changes that.


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