During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Shao & Shang. Also to Edmund
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
By the way, a question- could a character who is the Anthropomorphic Personification of fear and terror have the agency to be a CM, or should I not have the antagonist in my upcoming story be that?
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Lizzid people!
No. If they represent a concept like fear, they lack moral agency.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Besides that.
Edited by AustinDR on Mar 16th 2020 at 1:38:47 AM
Goku Black
Unless their are other individuals in the work that can be good or at least show a redeeming quality of some kind which were created or born the same way.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
If that is indeed the case... then I have concerns about this entry:
- Global Guardians PBEM Universe: The Blood Red King is the Anthropomorphic Personification of Terror. On a lark, he once invaded the maternity ward of a Belgian hospital and suffocated all the babies whose name began with an "odd-numbered" letter (A = 1, C = 3, and so on). He once forced a crusading televangelist to rape, strangle, and dismember his own teenage daughter during a live television broadcast because he didn't like the man's hair.
It literally says that he embodies fear. And he was one of those who was already written before the cleanup, and kept during the early days of the thread. Are there other beings that do the same but show capability to be good? If not, I fail to see how he passes the agency test.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
to Face, War, Sebastian Melmoth, Knygathin Zhaum, King Ildrac (he's got to be one of the worst keepers we've had in a long time), Shao Khan, Shang Tsung, the Joker and Edmund (that's an original take I have to say).
Edmund
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, that sounds like Made of Evil to me. Unless someone else is familiar with the character and can say otherwise, I'm going to say cut Blood Red King
Edited by KingofNightmares on Mar 16th 2020 at 1:53:51 AM
—signature not found—
Goku Black
Sorta weird that wasn't noticed before....
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
I'd like to see the discussion on him
Things are really about to get Fun around here
It sounds like that character has moral agency issues. It also seems like it will be nearly impossible to verify, I just checked out the trope page and it's apparently a post-by-email online roleplay with at least forty campaigns. Since the character's entry doesn't even mention which campaign he's in and that you apparently have to sign up to join the roleplay to even read it, combined with the moral agency issues, makes me think it's more trouble than it's worth.
The Draftsman of Doom
Cut the King.
Feels good, don't it?
Goku Black
Btw I recently got Dracula: Asylum which is a tie in novel(using a different continuity from daughter of Dracula) to the universal studios dracula (Bela lugosi's version ). Assuming he counts would we give that version his own entry or like radguet add to his old one.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
In that case, we also need to cut the page itself. The roleplay cleanup thread explicitly ruled that any roleplays which are not publicly accessible should be cut, because the page is not useful to the general audience of the wiki.
Goku Black
I think you should probably post this information their then
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Just did.
So yeah, ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Blood Red King for lacking agency.
Edited by MasterN on Mar 16th 2020 at 2:40:01 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Cut the King.
Goku Black
Oh right give the king the chop.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
On Dracula, from what I've read the book ignores events from some of the sequels.
Given Shrodingers Canon I feel like it could get his own entry if he counts
Things are really about to get Fun around here
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Cut the King
cut the king
so pretty much, Anthropomorphic Personification can only qualify if the personification has a clearly established personality not stemming from their anthropomorphism
Edited by nwotyzal on Mar 16th 2020 at 3:37:28 AM
I think these things should be taken on a case-by-case basis. Leaning cut to the King, however.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Cut the king.
Okay, for Whoniverse reformat, I think it's all good, except for the spinoffs:
- Ambassador seems fine if only for his MO, while Corakinus easily compares with some of the current keepers.
- Is Danes bad enough for the franchise?
- The Big Finish entries aren't great, so I can't even decide if they're bad enough.
Danes is a pedophile, a (thankfully) pretty unique crime in the Whoniverse, and his resources are pretty limited. For his weight class, he's a pretty solid keep in my book.
So I think I have a new candidate, but there's one question I have first due to the unusual nature of the work. Namely, it's an In-Game Novel. It's decently sized, can be read in its entirety, and stands on its own from the rest of the game, but I don't think there's any sort of precedent for this and it's not on the FAQ anywhere, so I wanted to ask if this sort of thing is allowed or if being an in-universe work is a disqualifier, regardless of whether the work is shown in full.
