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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#204951: Mar 12th 2020 at 1:34:55 AM

Hesitant [tup] Blacklight. So dude compares with all 6 (well, 5, since Mindbender's non-canon) current keepers?

Anyone wanna try and rewrite Film!Spawn?

IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#204952: Mar 12th 2020 at 1:42:10 AM

[tup] Blacklight and the Carnage quote.

Any more votes on the other recent quote proposals?

Edited by IukaSylvie on Mar 12th 2020 at 5:43:20 PM

captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#204953: Mar 12th 2020 at 2:05:10 AM

[tup] Megatron and Meca One quotes.

@spooky: glad to hear, mate. drop me a PM if you do find anything, I'd be happy to Collab with you on that.

Edit: have sadly had to pull a candidate from the Long Earth off my to-do list as I forgot he was the same character who actually moderates and becomes a Former Bigot. I'll see how the last two books in the series go.

Edit 2: am I in need of glasses, or are Dormammu and Mephisto (both the Ultimate Alliance series) both missing from the Marvel games CM page?

Edit 3: ah okay, [down]no worries ACW, didn't mean to pester.

Edited by captainmarkle on Mar 12th 2020 at 3:45:16 AM

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#204954: Mar 12th 2020 at 2:28:35 AM

captainmarkle: It's not you. The mods are WAY behind. I haven't even SUBMITTED this batch yet, since they've not even taken care of the PREVIOUS batch yet. It's also why Replicator, Ramos, and Floyd are still on the Criminal Minds page.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#204955: Mar 12th 2020 at 3:45:32 AM

[tup] Blacklight.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#204956: Mar 12th 2020 at 5:25:38 AM

[tup] Blacklight

@ACW Considering what's been happening lately, it's possible they preoccupied with the pandemic.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#204960: Mar 12th 2020 at 8:26:19 AM

Another somewhat frustrating almost-keep from In Death. In Indulgence, the killers are jointly responsible for 9 deaths and planned more, but what makes them stand out is how they make a game of the murders, with the prize being—we find out in the following story—"a fucking dollar". And these killers are billionaires, spoiled, entitled, and utterly loathsome. Problem is? While I think the sheer pettiness is enough, they're more than just murder buddies, but actually really good friends. So yeah, that's a no-go.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#204961: Mar 12th 2020 at 8:32:03 AM

Mmm... do they really show genuine care? Like, does one get sad when the other's killed. If they're that horrible, I'm more inclined to doubt they have redemptive qualities unless they outright prove it.

Also, a change I ran by Lighty about... well Light. I want to mention the size of his bodycount and implications to it, since it means he could well be the most prolific serial killer in all of fiction. Here's my slight change:

  • Death Note: Light Yagami is a brilliant, egotistical student who finds the titular Death Note and soon embarks on a quest to become the God of a "perfect" world he will create. After killing multiple criminals with the Note, Light flies into a rage when a man denounces his public name of "Kira" on TV, gleefully murdering the man on the spot. Once FBI agents investigate, Light kills them as well, revealing himself to one to gloat and later forcing the man's fiancée into suicide. Later, to eliminate his chief pursuer and rival L Lawliet, Light pulls a Memory Gambit where he has the Death Note given to a man he knows will misuse it and pulls off a scheme that kills multiple people, including L. After L's death, Light reduces the global crime rate through sheer volume of murders, with a bodycount stated to be worse than any genocide. Not even lovers or family members are immune, as Light uses one of his two girlfriends as bait for another rival and forces her to burn herself to death, also eliminating any evidence along with her and contemplates murdering his own sister the moment she becomes a liability. When exposed, Light attempts to justify himself as well-intentioned, but is revealed as "nothing more than a crazy Serial Killer."

Spooky2Cute Since: Mar, 2020
#204962: Mar 12th 2020 at 8:51:53 AM

Oh yeah, thanks for the reminder, Captain. I was wondering about collabs and rewrites. While I think I have collabs down (couple of guys pick who they'll recommend from a work), and I think I have rewrites down to a point. Just one question. Can you rewrite for a CM that was recommended by someone else? Considering ACW just asked if anyone could rewrite the spawn stuff, regardless of the original recommender, I am going to safe to assume yes. Just wanted to be sure, tho.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#204963: Mar 12th 2020 at 8:53:13 AM

Looks nice. Honestly the fact that light has a body count in the thousands at minimum is honestly impressive.

Edited by miraculous on Mar 12th 2020 at 8:56:50 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#204964: Mar 12th 2020 at 8:54:46 AM

So has anyone seen The Strangers? I want to know since I do think the trio of killers can qualify, but my only hesitation were some Alternate Character Interpretation which does indicate potential guilt about one of the killers and there's very little we know about them, although there's a number of hints throughout the movie.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#204965: Mar 12th 2020 at 8:56:55 AM

@Spooky: the answer is yet, but it's kind of frowned on. We ran into a trend of people rewriting just to rewrite it. It's best to ask permission and run it by the thread. If they've been written up and approved, one usually shouldn't do it just for a stylistic touch

Newton: No, the Stranger trio have no discernible character. They're terrifiyng, masked entities but don't rise to the level of requisite character we need with so little known about them here.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#204966: Mar 12th 2020 at 8:58:04 AM

Also if possible. Ask the person who first wrote them up if it's fine.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Spooky2Cute Since: Mar, 2020
#204967: Mar 12th 2020 at 9:06:13 AM

@lighty: Okay, understood. I have no intentions to rewrite just for the sake of it, it's just some of the write ups I've come across either have a very glaring spelling error, or have incorrect information.

Edited by Spooky2Cute on Mar 12th 2020 at 9:09:03 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#204968: Mar 12th 2020 at 9:07:05 AM

In that case, far more permissible

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#204969: Mar 12th 2020 at 9:13:37 AM

[tup] Megatron and Meca One quotes.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#204970: Mar 12th 2020 at 9:18:44 AM

43: Yeah, they're horrible, but it's definitely more than murder buddies.

She knocked Moriarity's weapon hand with an elbow strike, slammed the sharp point of her left shoe into his instep. As she pivoted, Dudley charged. The blade skipped lightly over her biceps, jerked as she finished the turn. And ran Moriarity through.

Eyes wide, Moriarity looked down at the blood seeping through the snow white of his shirt. "Winnie, you killed me."

As he fell, Dudley let out a howl, a wild combination of grief and rage. While cops flooded the room, weapons drawn, she indulged herself with one short-armed, vicious punch to his face.

And

"You misinterpreted my words. I was doing whatever I could to stall Sly." Tears, and she thought them sincere, sprang to his eyes even as he lied his murdering ass off. "I betrayed and killed my dearest friend for you."

"Sly"'s actually not dead, but "Winnie" doesn't know that yet.

Shame too, as Sly's full name is "Sylvester Moriarity", which is an awesome CM name [lol]

Also, Mir, if it's "Worse than any genocide" fuck thousands, we're talking MILLIONS.

43, is that just the manga or Death Note Series as well?

Edited by ACW on Mar 12th 2020 at 12:24:00 PM

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#204971: Mar 12th 2020 at 9:30:40 AM

For quotes: I had posted a suggestion for this and didn't get much response. Here it is again:

"Once upon a time, there was a little boy. You wouldn't describe him... as a particularly special little boy. He was neither tall nor handsome, charismatic or amusing. In fact, he appeared to be exceedingly dull. Because of this boy's apparent shortcomings he was bullied mercilessly and relentlessly by the other children. Year merged with miserable year as life continued to be a living hell. But what the other boys didn't understand about their victim was that he didn't see them as enemies. He saw them as instruments of learning. A priceless lesson was gleaned from his tormentors. Man has only two masters in this world. And their names are Pain and Fear. The boy found he had quite a talent for eliciting these feelings in others. So on the principle of playing to your strengths, he decided to make their cultivation his life's work. Fortunately for this boy history gave him an unprecedented opportunity. A world war. The canvas, Mr. Solo on which he would produce his greatest work. You will go here, Mr. Solo. A whole page just for you. And not in black and white, like the others. No. Kodachrome. The colors are so real, you can almost taste them... There are two kinds of torture, Mr. Solo. One is for the extraction of information. The other is for its own sake. I must admit this does get frustrating. But fortunately I'm in an old-fashioned mood. I think we'll start... with the pliers."

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#204972: Mar 12th 2020 at 9:47:05 AM

Speaking of Death Note movies, this is what i found in Death Note: The Last Name:

Alas, Poor Villain:

At the end, despite the numerous criminals and obstacles he killed, Light's death is not portrayed in a victorious manner. As he writhes in severe heart pain from his impending doom, he is held in his shocked father's arms. He keeps trying to convince his dad that as Kira, he wanted to make the world a more peaceful place to live in. Not only does this follow through from the previous film's more sympathetic characterisation, it also shows that deep down, he's just a boy being robbed from letting his father see the fruits of his actions.

I watched the movie years ago and maybe i didn't remember things correctly, but wasn't Light's death in the this movie series was portrayed as sad and he says at the end that he genuinely wanted to make the world better place?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#204973: Mar 12th 2020 at 9:54:23 AM

Doesn’t hold up. Light is driven by his ego

TiMBer1566 kittykat from Virginia Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
kittykat
#204974: Mar 12th 2020 at 9:55:34 AM

Also didn't he try to kill his father in that movie?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#204975: Mar 12th 2020 at 9:58:25 AM

Lighty, is that worse than any genocide just for Manga!Light?

Also, I'm thinking Deadly Book instead of Artifact of Doom. Hell, it's the freaking image for the former [lol]


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