During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Lizzid people!
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There will apparently be two Candymans. But that is a story for another time.
Queen, Slenderman, Talon
With that Valiant movie, its a British film that Disney bought the brand and distribution rights to. Would we put it under the Disney page in that case, or leave it on the main Western Animation page?
Edited by SumDumNerd on Mar 12th 2020 at 12:06:12 PM
Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation hereSo, I'd kinda like to bring up concerns with this candidate from Justice League. Apologies if this was brought up before, I searched him up and found nothing.
- John Dee, from "Only a Dream", as well as several cameos as a member of the Legion of Doom, started out as a minor convict who only fantasized of killing the Justice League to make a name for himself among super villains, but after an experimental machine gives him ESP, Dee quickly decides to make his fantasy a reality. Becoming Doctor Destiny, his first action is to take revenge on the wife who left him while he was in prison. As she's sleeping, Destiny goes into her dream and begins to torture her for hours. Eventually, the nightmare causes her to have a cardiac arrest and die of terror. Destiny then invades the dreams of each member of the Justice League, trying to use their worst fears to kill them one-by-one. These nightmares include making Superman think he killed his friends with out-of-control superpowers; and burying the claustrophobic Hawkgirl alive.
I'm really skeptical if he's heinous enough. Other than attempting to kill the heroes, he's only got one victim. Yeah, his methods are pretty unique, but given the low amount of victims along with the heinous standard of the DCAU (where in Batman: The Animated Series alone we got people like Joker and Two-Face attempting to deliver slow and painful deaths all across the city) I'm not sure if it's enough to stand out.
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Its Not just that. He tortures her to death slowly and is implied to have raped her. Which is something he tries to pull on the whole league which is uh....impressive for a nothing villain.
Edited by miraculous on Mar 11th 2020 at 10:29:17 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Keep Dee, his vile methods are enough, and....here's my cents.
"Tries to kill the heroes" is generic villainy yes, but that dosent mean that anything he does to the protagonists dosent count. In Dees case, making them experience there worst fears to slowly torture and kill them, one of which involved making superman think he killed his friends, MORE then pushses him over the line.
And torturing your wife in her dreams to the point she goes into cardiac arrest thing is different from just killing her
Edited by Kylotrope on Mar 11th 2020 at 7:33:40 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around hereJohn Dee isn't a high-level and experienced professional criminal like the Joker or a powerful warlord like Darkseid or Mongul. He's just a low-level Monster of the Week crook who happened to get his hands on a machine and give himself superpowers. And he manages to be especially sadistic and dangerous with what resources he has.
Have to say 'No' to Buck, the arguments are solid but unfortunately there's not enough of a pattern to his Serial Rapist tendencies, and compared to bastards like Hoyt, the Seed cult, etc, he just doesn't stand out quite enough.
And yeah, Keep Dee, that's really all there is to say. He's a Monster of the Week who has some of the most horrific crimes in the DCAU, and even if the Justice League are "the heroes," Dee quite literally seeks them out and targets them at their weakest just because he wants infamy, and decides to kill them by literally Mind Raping them to death, something he succeeds with his innocent wife.
Now for something entirely different for me, another G.I. Joe candidate! From the IDW canon that had already brought us a bevy of nasties, here's one more who I think can count.
Who is he?
The Cobra agent known only by his codename "Blacklight" is a Cobra agent who primarily functions as an assassin. A cold, nearly emotionless sociopath with who only cracks a smile while killing something, Blacklight has served Cobra for years, and as he is introduced to the story, he continues his career with some bumps in the road ahead for him...
What has he done?
In his introductory comic, Blacklight is tasked by Cobra leadership member the Baroness to kidnap one Doctor Gerald Orizama, to be of use to her in development of the M.A.S.S. device.
Tricking three college students with animal rights' activism into believing they are rescuing a monkey from captivity, Blacklight sends them ahead of him into Orizama's building, letting them get assaulted and nearly killed by the group of G.I. Joes tasked to protect Orizama before Blacklight makes his move.
Ruthlessly murdering a college security guard when he tries to flee the scene, Blacklight opens fire on the Joes, using a gas to render Scarlett and Duke unconscious before preparing to kill them while they're defenseless. When the Joe named Bazooka tries to save his friends, Blacklight casually guns him down dead, before realizing with annoyance that was the last of his ammo, forcing him to leave Scarlett and Duke alive as he flees with Orizama.
Next contacted by Baroness with express orders to kill as many Joes as possible, Blacklight finds a Joe group, stakes out with his sniper rifle and a partner, and starts picking them off one by one with amused satisfaction. Refusing to retreat when the Joes start opening fire on himself and his partner despite said partner's vehement protests, Blacklight gives a resounding *shrug* when his partner is shot dead by the Joes, continuing to fire upon them before finally being forced to retreat, but not before killing 4 of the Joes and nearly killing a fifth.
The Baroness, an emotional wreck at this point due to a variety of factors, flies into a rage at Blacklight's "failure," cutting off all contact with him and leaving him out in the cold. Refusing to simply be forgotten and robbed of his job that allows him to do his favorite thing in the world, Blacklight comes up with a plan to win himself back into Cobra's good graces.
Murdering a couple to steal their vehicle, Blacklight robs a small business owner and possible kills him before heading to an airport. Disposing of a wealthy man and his fuel attendant so as to steal the man's private jet, Blacklight holds two pilots hostage and forces them to fly him halfway to his planned destination, at which point he shoots and kills them and crashes the plane, escaping with a parachute. Hitchhiking until someone stops to pick him up—who Blacklight is implied to kill at that point—Blacklight makes his way to a known G.I. Joe, and sets up his sniper rifle.
Now, Blacklight plans to murder the Cobra turncoat Erika La Tene so as to gain Cobra's favor once more...he opens fire on a group of Joes, killing one of them (who actually deserved it tbh not that Blacklight knew that) while trying for Erika. When a group of soldiers zero in on Blacklight's sniping location in a large building, Blacklight waits for them to show up and starts brutally murdering them all with his bare hands, before fleeing the building...when reinforcements arrive, Blacklight detonates a series of bombs, bringing the entire building as well as one next to it down, killing everyone inside both.
Continuing to try to find ways to get into Cobra's ranks again, Blacklight comes to be aware of the existence of Billy Kessler, adult son of the now-desd Cobra Commander. Deciding to kill Billy so as to prevent him from exposing Cobra secrets and use this as precedent for his reinstatement into Cobra, Blacklight hunts Billy down, nearly killing the Cobra agent Firefly and severely wounding a security guard in the process.
In his final appearance, Blacklight finds Billy—guarded by G.I. Joe agents Ronin and Lady Jaye—and happily tries to kill them all, cutting the power in the room and trying to execute them while they're blinded before being taken down by Lady Jaye's superior skill, getting a flashbang grenade shoved in his face, chest shot full of lead, and body falling out of a window to end him for good.
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?
Nah, Blacklight's just a cold, cruel and Dissonant Serenity nutbar who enjoys killing people for Cobra, and then spends the rest of his appearances trying to get back into Cobra's ranks with insane determination. Blacklight doesn't care about anyone and has no loyalty to Cobra itself, his desire to be "in" with Cobra again is solely self-serving.
Heinousness?
I've hesitated on Blacklight awhile due to this...IDW!G.I. Joe has a high standard, the Cobra leadership nearly all have bodycounts in the triple digits, other lower-tier Cobra agents like Firefly blow up buildings filled with people routinely, while others still like Skullbuster puts recruits through Training from Hell and force them to kill innocent people.
Blacklight isn't a full-on mass murdering psycho like Firefly, and is in fact used in direct opposition to Firefly—Firefly is an industrial-level saboteur who is cheerful and loud and generally hands-off with his explosives, Blacklight is a Cold Sniper who kills anyone who stands in his way with bare hands and weapons alike—but both are nonetheless portrayed as some of Cobra's worst, and Blacklight is a very nasty player in the game.
He's nothing but a guy with a couple guns. And once he gets booted from Cobra, he has even less resources, but even still goes on a damn killing spree just to get from point A to point B—he kills a couple for their car, robs and possibly kills a shop owner, murders a man and his fuel attendant to steal their plane, kills the pilots, kills a guy to steal his car....on top of the repeated assassinations, massacring a security squad, toppling buildings full of people, putting 3 college kids in the crossfire to serve as distractions, I think Blacklight has more than enough to let him count. Every time he's onscreen, Blacklight is either killing someone or trying to, he's got an on-page bodycount of well over two dozen, and unlike Firefly or Skullbuster, Blacklight is working with absolutely nothing but his own two hands and a couple of guns, not a bevy of explosives or a group of armed trainees.
Final Verdict?
I'd say Blacklight Keeps, he's easily one of the least powerful or influential Cobra agents ever seen, yet racks up a bodycount that surpasses even several higher-ranking ones.
Edited by Ravok on Mar 11th 2020 at 10:42:02 AM
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Blacklight
keep Doctor Destiny / John Dee
Okay, so the consensus seems to be
to Buck. That's fine, I was mindful he had some nasty competition and I'm happy to just put the issue to rest. It was fun writing the EP and playing the game while I got better.
@spooky: if you do find anything that would be swell, thanks mate! Just remember the fic would have to have a significant plot, not just "Buck rapes people".
Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
Blacklight
As for Tomie, I don't recall the Kawakami name being used at all in the manga. I think that's film only.
Proposing a quote:
Okay this is concerning one of the entries for Spawn and any possible future entries for the Spawn series. Not sure how many of you are aware or not but...
CYAN ISN'T SPAWN'S DAUGHTER
Sorry for the dramatic flare, but it seems to be a common misconception. In no form of the Spawn continuity has Cyan ever or ever been portrayed as Al Simmons' biological daughter, and there is not evidence or confirmation from Todd Mac Farlane or any of the writers that she ever was.
She is Terry's daughter, not Al's. Her name is Cyan Fitzgerald, why would she have that name if her father was Al Simmons?
Look I know this is probably off-topic, but I just wanted to make myself clear, because the Clown/Violator entry for the live-action film says Cyan is Spawn's daughter, which the film blatantly states is not the case.
Sorry for the rant, I will take my leave.
