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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#204901: Mar 11th 2020 at 1:18:08 PM

Speaking of, should we use Tomie's full name (Tomie Kawakami) for her writeup?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#204902: Mar 11th 2020 at 1:21:46 PM

The Humanoid Abomination thing has a full name. Huh ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#204903: Mar 11th 2020 at 2:08:58 PM

[tup] Queen

Not exactly 100% Completion, but a short hidden page within Philip's diary got him disqualified... Ugh.

[down] Philip LeMarchand

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Mar 11th 2020 at 6:30:07 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#204904: Mar 11th 2020 at 2:20:30 PM

Which Philip? Channard's still there.

BTW, if anyone's interested for In Death, Apprentice & Leverage could use more opinions on whether the people have disqualifying aspects, but they're definitely heinous enough. Conversely, I just finished Kindred, and I'm wondering if one's heinous enough.

Edited by ACW on Mar 11th 2020 at 5:25:23 AM

captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#204905: Mar 11th 2020 at 3:26:05 PM

OK, so my next EP - and my first since I fell sick a few weeks ago - is for Bambi Hughes from Far Cry 3, better known by his nickname Buck.

Who is Buck?

Buck is an Australian hitman working under Hoyt Volker, and the first major villain dealt with directly (that isn't Vaas). Prior to joining up with Hoyt and his operations, joined the Australian Defence Force in his early 20s; however, he was quickly dismissed, due to his commanders quickly finding out about his sadistic tendencies and fixation on brutality. He started working as a mercenary and travelled around the South Pacific while doing various contracts for different warlords, evneutally coming to Rook Island (Islands?) and signing up with Hoyt. He stays there for a while, staying in service at the current age of 43 (this is relevant for down the line) and becoming Co-Dragons for Hoyt along with Vaas Montenegro; during his stay in the Rook Islands, he becomes obsessed with the lost treasure of Lin Cong, a warlord who used to rule the islands, and sets about uncovering it.

What does Buck do?

After Jason Brody breaks free from Vaas Montenegro's prison camp, he begins liberating his friends while also joining the Rakyat and following their so-called Path of the Warrior, doing things like hunting animals and liberating outposts etc. He finds Daisy already rescued, then rescues girlfriend Liza and his friend Ollie and plans to rescue Keith... Just before we actually meet Buck, we see him briefly in a vision Jason has when he drinks a potent drug cocktail, standing over a cowering Keith and encouraging him to struggle, because "I like my meat raw", which shows he gets off on there being resistance and wouldn't object to necrophilia if Keith died in the process.

Here we cut to Keith (about twenty year's Buck's junior), who, as the American spy Willis informs Jason, was sold by Vaas to a hired gun / soldier under Hoyt Volker's employ named Buck. Jason deadpans, in a Shout-Out to Kill Bill, "His name is Buck, he likes to f...". Oh, Jason, you just had to jinx fate. Jason travels to a bar in the town of Badtown - yes, the name is given a mocking - where he meets Buck. At first glance, Buck seems a tad out of place for a soldier, with an entirely open shirt and a tattoo of a deer on his chest, and seems surprisingly Affably Evil when speaking to Jason. However, he quickly hints his evil side when he makes a comment (admittedly with some Black Comedy) about thinking Keith was really called (*muffled screaming noise*), showing he's a Dirty Old Man (or near enough given the age difference of twenty years between himself and Keith). The duo broker a deal where, if Jason retrieves an ancient Chinese knife for Buck of some great cultural and historical significance, all part of some ancient hoard of treasure left behind by Lin Cong, Buck seems to agree he'll let Keith go with Jason.

The first destination Buck sends Jason to, to start his search, is a ship that just happens to be filled with the pirates Vaas employs, showing that Buck isn't above backstabbing his allies for his own benefit. Once Jason gets the first clues, the ship he's on sinks and he almost drowns, though Buck saves his life. This isn't out of altruism, however, but because he needs Jason alive, and also because Buck finds Jason sexually attractive. Buck is attracted to strong, assertive individuals, and seems to enjoy breaking them.

This repeats a couple more missions, with Jason finding new bits of the puzzle each time and slaughtering more of Vaas' pirates that stand in his way, sabotaging the operation on behalf of Buck, Vaas's ostensible ally. In between each one, Buck gives a history lesson to Jason on Lin Cong and his treasure and the legacy left behind on the island. When Jason doesn't express much interest, Buck gets slightly irritated and the mask drops a bit, with particular snark or acts of perceived defiance punished with promised lashings or raping of Keith. In one instance, Jason apologises for not having the proper knife and only a clue towards its whereabouts, for which Buck promises to abuse Keith further.

Towards the end of the arc, Buck admits he is getting tired of Keith constantly crying and being upset - because of the suffering he inflicted - and is now looking for someone else to serve as his Sex Slave. Jason finally loses his cool with Buck and tries to tell him he is no longer in charge, at which point the mask drops entirely and Buck calls a subordinate and orders him to slit Keith open from head to toe, since he is no longer claling the shots and needs to tidy up loose ends; Jason reluctantly apologises and shuts up, doing more of Buck's bidding in exchange for Keith not being gutted. Eventually, Jason gets the ceremonial blade and brings it to Buck in his house just outside Badtown; Buck tosses him the key and tells him that Keith is in the basement of the house. Jason walks down the stairs to find Keith kept in a nasty basement, and more importantly covered in a bloody handprint-stained white shirt, flinching when Jason goes to comfortingly pat him on the shoulder, utterly broken and understandably terrified. Jason goes to reassure Keith they are about to go and rejoin the others. . .

They turn around to find Buck standing at the stairs, asking Jason where he thinks they are going. Jason tries to remind Buck they made a deal, only for Buck to insist that he said Keith could go *with* Jason, but that Jason isn't going anywhere, making all the emotional torment etc. All for Nothing. To the player's probable total lack of surprise, he admits that I Lied and, when Jason demands they be let go, Buck takes a knife and tries to stab Jason. Here the line about raw meat is repeated. As he gets slightly closer to stabbing Jason, Buck says "this is some fucked up foreplay, eh?" Jason then - possibly strengthened by his experiences in getting the knife (the player will certainly have levelled up a few times) - overpowers Buck, impaling him with the same ceremonial blade that he was after all this time. Keith finally leaves Bucks house and joins the other survivors, but swears Jason to secrecy about what happened, irreversibly broken.

Heinous Standard

Now Buck isn't on the same level of his boss, confirmed CM Hoyt. He's also not as proactive as Vaas, who is the de facto ruler of the anarchic pirates (even if they are officially under Hoyt's control through Vaas). However, given that he's a mere hitman, yet outright schemes to sabotage his boss/allies (or his/their plans) for his personal gain, he's more heinous than I initially believed when first playing through the game two years ago. He's also got the dubious distinction of being a Serial Rapist, shown just about to rape Keith in a vision and with Keith later shown with a shirt with bloody handprints and the trait of flinching when someone moves to touch him often - if not always - found in victims of assault; so while we don't get to see Buck literally raping Keith onscreen (thank god), we see the cutoff point and the traumatised results. He also plans to repeat the process with Jason after he finally tires of Keith, showing it's not an isolated incident and he has a sadistic trend of breaking men he finds "assertive".

I can't comment on the wider Far Cry-verse beyond Blood Dragon just yet. However, it's rare for a villain to be a rapist and rarer for a Serial Rapist as far as I know.

Mitigating Factors

Buck has absolutely no redeeming traits. He is Faux Affably Evil but lacks any sort of Freudian Excuse for his behaviour, being a pure Hate Sink; contrast with Vaas who is a genuinely mentally ill Tragic Villain through his backstory, and even Hoyt has a Freudian Excuse (however insignificant or failing to justify his crimes) through his abusive father All There in the Manual. Not Buck, who seems to have had a normal life, joined the Australian military and quickly got chucked out for being a Sociopathic Soldier. Any friendliness or fond mention of Keith is faked, as shown by his quickness in threatening to harm Keith as Revenge by Proxy for Jason mouthing off, or almost having Keith killed on a whim when Jason gets too assertive. There's the odd, very brief bit of Black Comedy, like when he says Keith was really called (mimes sound of a hand over mouth while making shocked noises), but the actual act is not made fun of and easily one of the most disturbing parts of the game - which, for Far Cry, is no mean feat.

Buck is admittedly purely an Arc Villain, so not as big in scale as his direct boss. He also isn't the only rapist in the game - the second is Citra, supposed Big Good for most of the game, who takes advantage of Jason being drugged up to have sex with him at one point. However, Citra is shown to mourn her brother and to otherwise have a few redeeming traits even if she's as nutty as squirrel shit; also, for all her many flaws, Citra isn't a bloody necrophiliac!

Conclusion?

I was initially unsure, but think that given his limited scope, sadism to match Hoyt despite his relatively limited screentime, and more personal villainy compared to Hoyt for most of the game, [tup]. I will not lose sleep either way on him, and this EP is mostly to just bury the issue in my mind.

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#204906: Mar 11th 2020 at 3:55:01 PM

I don't see Buck as being anywhere near bad as Hoyt or Vaas to be honest. All the people he has Jason kill are a bunch of Asshole Victim pirates, and the sexual abuse and torture of Keith are all technically limited to only one person. He just doesn't really cut it for me.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#204907: Mar 11th 2020 at 3:57:19 PM

[tdown] Buck. A nasty prick sure, but doesn’t compare at all to Hoyt.

It's Spooky Month!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#204908: Mar 11th 2020 at 4:03:54 PM

Buck's a nasty one and while I love him as a villain, gotta say no, he just doesn't do enough to me to stand out.

Spooky2Cute Since: Mar, 2020
#204909: Mar 11th 2020 at 4:04:02 PM

Captainmarkle! I had Buck on my planned rec list! Curse you and your mind reading powers!

In all seriousness, I'll give Buck a [tup], if only because I was going to recommend him, myself [lol]

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#204911: Mar 11th 2020 at 4:17:46 PM

[tdown] to Buck. He's a very vile individual, but I don't think he's close enough to the standards set by Hoyt and Vaas.

Also, ~Lore Deluxe, since you wrote up the entry for Mr. Veils, I thought I'd let you know that the Ambition involving him, Bag a Legend, had its conclusion released yesterday (March 10). I don't know if the conclusion will give him anything that disqualifies him, but I thought I'd let you know in case you wanted to keep an eye on him.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Mar 11th 2020 at 4:24:41 AM

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#204912: Mar 11th 2020 at 4:20:46 PM

I assume Vaas doesn't count because he was influenced by Hoyt?

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#204913: Mar 11th 2020 at 4:21:21 PM

[up] That and a lot of drugs.

[tdown] Buck

Nice EP tho! Memorable villain for sure.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Mar 11th 2020 at 8:22:45 AM

Spooky2Cute Since: Mar, 2020
#204914: Mar 11th 2020 at 4:23:28 PM

If I can muster even the smallest amount of defense, I honestly thought Buck's treatment of Keith was something of note. Rape isn't uncommon in the Far Cry series, but repeated sexual assault with the use of a Sex Slave is something I don't recall as a fan.

Yuma raped Ajay...possibly. As someone who watched the fight with her, while I won't deny that was her intention, I'm not sure if she actually succeeded, mainly because Ajaykilled her sorry ass.

Back onto Buck, I feel their was enough to establish a bit of a pattern for Serial Rapist. With him planning on making both Keith and Jason sex slaves, and Willis making it pretty clear these are Buck's tastes. Also, I got the idea to recommend him from Zach Shelby from Bates Motel. As, from what I can tell, he doesn't act kill someone outside of possibly his sex slave, though he does attempt a bunch of kills.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#204915: Mar 11th 2020 at 4:31:21 PM

Sadly [tdown] to Likes To Fuck.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#204916: Mar 11th 2020 at 4:46:19 PM

[tup] to another iteration of Slender Man.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#204917: Mar 11th 2020 at 4:54:07 PM

The Ambition: Bag a Legend finale actually releases next Tuesday as they all come in 3 parts.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#204918: Mar 11th 2020 at 5:00:46 PM

Yeah as much as a deplorable bastard he was, I'm going to have to vote [tdown] to Buck, as he doesn't meet the heinous standard set by the likes of Vaas and Hoyt.

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#204921: Mar 11th 2020 at 6:15:30 PM

While what Buck does is given the most light in the game, the work also makes it clear that Hoyt's pirates have free reign to do what they want and I see to recall at least one mook indicating Jason would be getting raped on the island. Throw in the gun trade and human slavery his boss('s boss) is behind... not to mention Vaas' own nasty sadism (yeah, ACW, Hoyt broke him with drugs, not a chance he counts) and there's nothing Buck really ends up with beyond one nasty personal crime. MEH crossing? Yeah. CM? No. The Serial Rapist thing isn't given enough light for us to be calling a pattern here.

Edited by 43110 on Mar 11th 2020 at 9:16:23 AM

Spooky2Cute Since: Mar, 2020
#204922: Mar 11th 2020 at 6:21:39 PM

[up]Shame. Since I was planning to rec Buck, I guess this can be considered a failed recommendation on my part, as well. My first, in fact! [lol]

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#204923: Mar 11th 2020 at 7:33:47 PM

[tup] Slendy Boy. Shame about Buck because man is kinda in that level, just his setting is really that high in heinousness. That said, Buck is such a popular character I don't doubt there's a CM version of him somewhere among the fanfics.

Speaking of Candyman, his original version definitely doesn't count, but I wonder if he's reboot might. Reboot do have the tendency to change the character.

Also one thing, anyone ever saw The Strangers? I wonder if the trio criminals might count as C Ms.

Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Mar 11th 2020 at 7:37:42 AM

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#204924: Mar 11th 2020 at 7:38:47 PM

The "reboot" is going to be a follow up to the first movie. The same movie that established his origin.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Spooky2Cute Since: Mar, 2020
#204925: Mar 11th 2020 at 7:54:48 PM

[up][up] Fanfics are the goldmine for CMs, FF.net and AO3 (I don't go anywhere else for fics) are pretty good places to find CMs. I'm hoping to find a Spooky fanfic. I'll be sure to give you a heads up if I find a good Buck candidate, @Captain!


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