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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#198801: Jan 19th 2020 at 9:59:42 AM

He was discussed already? Sorry I missed that.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#198802: Jan 19th 2020 at 10:15:00 AM

[up]Didn't you lead the discussion yourself? I know you did the MB EP for him and I may be thinking of that. EDIT: Yeah, you did lead it on this thread too: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=7792#comment-194794

Yeah, I'll also say [tdown] to Ransom too. I admit I kind of want him redeemed in a sequel though because I thought Ana de Armas (Marta) and Chris Evans had really good chemistry. Not gonna mention the restaurant thing again as it would be the third time (instead you can find it yourselves through this: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=7792#comment-194798), but I hear there are plans for a sequel. Daniel Craig (Blanc) is probably the only one coming back though.

Also @papyru papyru, I'm gonna take him to HS if that's okay.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jan 19th 2020 at 10:34:33 AM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#198803: Jan 19th 2020 at 10:30:17 AM

I changed my mind on Ransom recently, I thought that I had missed someone else giving him an EP

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#198804: Jan 19th 2020 at 10:37:14 AM

[up]No you didn't miss it. Your original impression that as nasty as the things he did were, he didn't do enough? That was correct.

It's okay that you did an EP though just to be sure. There was a character I wanted to EP, but even without one, the thread is very firm on them not counting, so I know better than to share it. Ransom wasn't discussed in depth here though, so it's okay.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jan 19th 2020 at 10:40:09 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#198805: Jan 19th 2020 at 10:59:10 AM

Added to the batch:

  • LEGO Exo-Force: Meca One Prime is the leader and main mastermind of the robot rebellion. Built by humans as the most intelligent of the mining robots on Sentai Mountain, Meca One decides robots to be the superior species and turns the robot workers against their creators in an attempt to wipe out the mountain's human population. After conquering the south side of the mountain and enslaving or imprisoning any humans present there, Meca One begins a cycle of endless battles in hopes of dwindling the mountain's human population to zero without a chance to surrender so that he can use their deaths as an example before moving on to the rest of the world. Meca One has soldiers who fail their duties dismantled, and he watches with interest when the Raging Storm goes rogue and begins killing his troops despite having the power to remotely deactivate it. With a heart even colder than the metal he is made out of, Meca One strikes fear into all who dare know his name.

captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#198806: Jan 19th 2020 at 12:04:19 PM

OK, after much delay here is my first draft for Yngvarr Unnvaldr from Falskaar.

Link to the original EP here if anyone has any suggestions or thinks I missed something especially heinous. As always, feedback much appreciated (this is my second CM draft writeup in a year).

Yngvarr Unnvaldr is the Jarl of the city of Staalgarde, as well as secret benefactor of the bandits plaguing Amber Creek. Fuelled by jealously against the Borvaldur family resulting from his own incompetence, Yngvarr seeks immortality from the Heart of the Gods; to this end, he orders massacres of helpless civilians and slaughters the city of Borvald to a man. When the heroes act against him, Yngvarr kidnaps Agmar's wife and son and threatens their lives in exchange for the keys, then goes back on his word and tries killing them all. Proving callous towards his own men and even own city, which he fools into sacrificing itself for supposedly "noble" reasons, Yngvarr proves himself the greatest monster in Falskaar's history and would wilfully kill everyone on it for his own gain.

—-

I'll do my EP for Vex from The Oxventure probably tomorrow at this rate; I'm pretty much mended up but underestimated my recovery time.

Welcome back, Scraggle smile

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#198807: Jan 19th 2020 at 12:32:17 PM

I've been looking for examples for the Fan Works section, and I think I might have found one. This isn't one I think might barely qualify like Secco or Verge either; this is one I think lands firmly in CM territory, easily.

What is the work?

Gems Are Unbreakable is a fanfic in which after their final battle, Josuke Higashikata and Yoshikage Kira are transported into the world of Steven Universe. Kira, of course, decides to settle in Beach City to continue his killing spree.

Who is Yoshikage Kira? What has he done?

Yoshikage Kira, as we all know, is a serial killer of women. That hasn't changed. Kira kills women, steals their hands, and also tries to kill anyone who threatens his lifestyle. Over the course of the fic, he kills Vidalia, Peridot, Jenny, and a number of other characters, both named and otherwise. Additionally, he tricks Steven into believing that he's a kind person and poisons him into hating the Crystal Gems (sans Lapis), and when Steven, Connie, and Lapis discover the truth, he tries to kill them too. Additionally, he tricks Garnet, Amethyst, and Pearl into thinking Josuke is responsible for the killings using Sheer Heart Attack (which he has more control over than in canon) in order to get them to kill each other. While it's not a long list (the fic is only 15 chapters long at the moments and some of them do not focus on Kira), Kira also takes a lot more sadistic pleasure in each of these acts than in canon. While in canon, his murders were framed as more of a compulsion that Kira doesn't bother to try to resist, here Kira is a total sadist who kills and hurts people because he loves doing it.

Heinousness?

Well over the heinousness standard of Steven Universe, and up there with the worst villains of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. Few non-CM Jo Jo villains enjoy killing as much as this version of Kira.

Migitating Factors?

Not so much. There is the fact that this is a case of Adaptational Villainy, but that hasn't stopped many other characters from being labeled as C Ms. It does have slight shades of Ron the Death Eater with Kira being labeled as worse than Angelo by the narration, but it's not enough to go beyond the standard fanfic level of Alternate Character Interpretation, given how many people Kira has canonically killed without pity or remorse.

Verdict?

I'd say he qualifies. The narrative certainly treats him as one, at least, and he's certainly written as one. While I'm admittedly a bit hazy on rules for fanfic villains being labeled as C Ms, I think Kira's portrayal speaks for itself.

Edited by Critica7 on Jan 19th 2020 at 12:38:30 PM

Check out my current fanfiction project.
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#198808: Jan 19th 2020 at 12:51:15 PM

Tentative yes to Kira; I don't think a serial killer who kills women for their hands is too grimdark for Steven Universe given how awful the Diamonds apparently are.

Critica7 Self-Declared King of Everything from Smallville Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Self-Declared King of Everything
#198809: Jan 19th 2020 at 1:10:15 PM

[up] It's not really the killing that makes Kira worse than any Steven Universe villain, it's the reason for it; Kira doesn't kill people because of pain or a skewed worldview, but because he enjoys it. He's a massive subversion of the Rousseau Was Right mentality that pervades Steven Universe.

Check out my current fanfiction project.
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#198810: Jan 19th 2020 at 1:13:05 PM

A sad no for Ransom, whom continues Rian Johnson's trend of absurdly attractive, dangerous male villains that I kinda wanna see get dommed by the heroine.

...Rian Johnson broke me in 2017 and I can never enjoy romance without enmity ever again.

I will abstain on Kira cause I dunno enough about Jojo.

I should probably say I'm gonna be less active here. Am focusing on my personal writing right now. DM me if you wanna take something from my to-do, but I wanna keep my reservations for things like FFVII Remake and KHIII's DLC.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#198811: Jan 19th 2020 at 1:13:51 PM

Polar, like...we get it with Kylo, ok? It's been a month now.

Yes to Kira

Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 19th 2020 at 1:14:06 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#198812: Jan 19th 2020 at 1:30:32 PM

[tdown]Ransom.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#198813: Jan 19th 2020 at 1:33:10 PM

Sure to Kira. Seems like he doesn't have the mitigating factor his canon version does.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Pemulis_128 A 20th Century Boy from Teleporting behind you Since: Jul, 2018 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
A 20th Century Boy
#198816: Jan 19th 2020 at 1:51:37 PM

Voting [tup] to Kira and [tdown] to Ransom.

captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#198817: Jan 19th 2020 at 1:53:35 PM

[tup] Kira

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#198818: Jan 19th 2020 at 1:54:46 PM

[tup]Kira.

  • Chasing the Dead, by Joe Schreiber: Isaac Hamilton, following his death and subsequent revival by Haiti holy men, becomes a force of pure evil. Becoming a harvester of souls, Isaac targets children, killing them and blowing out their eyes, the window to the souls, to gain control of their dead bodies. Taken apart by the parents of his victims and his body parts scattered across the state, Isaac manages to return using the body of his first victim as a vessel, continuing his killing spree for well over a century. Enraged when two of his would-be victims, Sue and Phillip, attack and seemingly kill his vessel, Isaac returns to haunt them in adulthood, killing Phillip before abducting Sue's infant daughter Veda, forcing her to drive Phillip's corpse through the towns his parts are buried to revive Phillip's body under his control. Killing anyone who gets in his way, Isaac finally attacks Sue and Veda via an army of all his resurrected child victims, planning to force Sue to choose who will die first.

Why so serious?
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#198819: Jan 19th 2020 at 2:10:15 PM

I thought people were voting on canon Kira for a second, and was ready to throw a downvote, lol. Yes to fanfic Kira.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#198820: Jan 19th 2020 at 2:14:46 PM

@Lighty Huh?

EDIT:Pffft, I thought you were talking about me.

Edited by Kylotrope on Jan 19th 2020 at 12:17:50 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#198821: Jan 19th 2020 at 2:59:18 PM

Yes to Fic!Kira and Lighty's right Polar, seriously drop it.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#198822: Jan 19th 2020 at 3:06:54 PM

[tup] to Harlequin and Kira.

Thirding what Lighty said. You're free to complain about TLJ and/or Rian Johnson all you want, but this isn't the thread for it.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#198823: Jan 19th 2020 at 3:14:35 PM

I found this in Von Karma's character page

  • Even Evil Has Loved Ones: In Investigations 2, he goes on a spiel about "unbiased judgement", then owing to the fact that he's investigating a cookery contest, he then notes that although his wife is an amateur at cooking, he considers her results to "rival that of world-class chefs".

Doesn't sound like it really holds up to me.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#198824: Jan 19th 2020 at 3:17:30 PM

I don't know what exactly that trope IS, but it's NOT EEHLO.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#198825: Jan 19th 2020 at 3:19:21 PM

.....I think that's some trope but Even Evil Has Loved Ones seems an extreme misuse.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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