During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I've been taking a look at the Dragon Ball movies lately, and I think I have a candidate.
What Is the Work?
Dragon Ball: Mystical Adventure, the third and final Non-Serial Movie for the original Dragon Ball anime. Unlike the Dragon Ball Z movies, which told their own stories with very loose continuity with the anime, the Dragon Ball movies were re-tellings of story arcs from the manga, and the three movies could be considered their own continuity. Mystical Adventure is a retelling of both the Red Ribbon Army and Tienshinhan Arcs, with some major differences (like Chiaotzu being an emperor for example).
Who Is He?
Master Shen, the Big Bad of the film, and unlike his source material counterpart, has a lot more dirty deeds on his hands. He is the minister of the Mifan Empire, but has his own agenda.
What Has He Done?
He stole Emperor Chiaotzu's prized possession, a doll named "Ran Ran," so that he could gather the Dragon Balls without suspicion under the false promise of using Shenron to retrieve the doll. In actuality, he is planning on using them to take over Mifan with his brother, General Tao, and his apprentice, Tienshinan, and plans to kill Chiaotzu. He has the Pilaf Gang make a Dragon Radar for him, and repays them by having Tao, beat them and it's implied that he had them killed.
When Lieutenant Blue (who is actually a good guy in this continuity) finds out what Shen is doing, he tries to warn Chiaotzu. When Blue refuses to heed Shen's warning, he has Tao kill Blue by striking a pressure point of his temple with his tongue like in the manga.
Shen has the Mifan Army destroy the Land of Korin to obtain one of the Dragon Balls, which is in possession of Bora. He and his son Upa travel to Mifan to convince them to stop and is coerced into entering the Tournament. During the tournament, Shen has Tao torture Bora for the Dragon Ball and kills him when he refuses to hand it over.
After the Dragon Balls get stolen from Shen, he has his army attack Goku's friends. He then orders Tien to kill Chiaotzu, but he refuses after developing an attachment to him throughout the movie. Shen instantly declares Tien a lost cause and decides to kill both him and Chiaotzu, but Tien manages to dispose of him.
Mitigating Factors?
Shen is a huge case of Adaptational Villainy. While he was an abusive jerk in the manga, most of his malice was motivated by avenging the death of Tao, and it was implied that his history with Demon King Piccolo twisted his morals. Here, he has no Freudian Excuse and there's no indication that he loves his brother and sees him as anything more than a tool for furthering his goals.
Since the Dragon Ball movies are set in an Alternate Continuity, as far as we know, infamous monsters like Frieza and Zamasu don't exist, and Cell definitely will never exist since the Red Ribbon Army isn't around either. However, this, Curse of the Blood Rubies, and Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle could be considered within the same continuity. King Gurumes never did anything worse than treating his subjects like slaves and he was ultimately reformed by the end of the first movie. While Lucifer from the second movie had a more malicious goal by destroying the sun, he never successfully kills anybody on-screen and was something of a Generic Doomsday Villain. So, Shen tops both of them in the heinousness department. As for Tao, many of his actions mirror the manga, but most of them were under Shen's orders.
Final Verdict?
I say he qualifies.
Edited by Animeking1108 on Jan 18th 2020 at 8:02:21 AM
I’m concerned about Shen. Unlike, say, King Piccolo from Dragonball Evolution, I feel that Shen is outdone by Frieza, Cell and the like by a margin so large that the ‘alternate continuity’ argument fails to hold.
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.Judging by the dubious canonicity of the movie, I'll say yes to Shen.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)Okay, so... let's talk Five Nights at Freddy's.
Recently, in Five Nights at Freddy's VR: Help Wanted and the canon books Fazbear's Frights, it was revealed and all but confirmed that everything that has happened in the F Na F games, including William Afton... isn't real.
The story is now that, in order to cover up and make light of a six-child killing in one of the restaurants in 1985, Fazbear Entertainment hired an indie video game developer to create a fictitious game series with its own complicated lore (these are the F Na F games so far released) to cover up the real crime that occurred. Now, while Afton my have been inspired by the killer, the real killer is, as of now, too enigmatic for any kind of CM discussion.
So the question is, do we still include Afton, despite the fact that he is from a now metafictional series? I'd be fine with keeping him around until the next game is released later this year, but figured it was best to bring it up.
Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation hereAbstaining on Shen, but Delphine, that's not how it works. The reason the Goosebumps books have an overall heinous standard is because the books are all part of a series, so we compare the overall heinous standards of the books because they're meant to be grouped together. The same thing wouldn't be the case with a stand-alone movie. It's why we take different heinous standards for things like different Ninja Turtles tv shows since they're both in different continuities, and not meant to all be grouped together.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jan 18th 2020 at 12:14:13 PM
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Its listed as "the 8th canon installment of the Five Nights at Freddy's franchise".
Edited by SumDumNerd on Jan 18th 2020 at 10:28:03 AM
Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here"I’m concerned about Shen. Unlike, say, King Piccolo from Dragonball Evolution, I feel that Shen is outdone by Frieza, Cell and the like by a margin so large that the ‘alternate continuity’ argument fails to hold"
Uh, no offense intended, but I don't think the argument "This is a different continuity but the guys in the main continuity are REALLY bad" holds up.
On the FNAF stuff, I actually wanted to talk about this for awhile.
For me Its the same as with the Nightmare on elm street with the New Nightmare film. Granted New Nightmare was a one off film whereas the VR stuff seems to be where the franchise goes from here, But still.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
As for FNAF, well, New Danganronpa V3 had a similar plot twist, and we still decided to keep Junko. So, keep Afton.
Edited by MasterN on Jan 18th 2020 at 9:52:33 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.![]()
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Good example.
(Love the new profile pic, BTW kylo)
Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here

Leaning
Hamilton.