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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

AgeOfTropeEmpire Handsome Head of Hyperion Since: Nov, 2018
Handsome Head of Hyperion
#198676: Jan 18th 2020 at 11:12:15 AM

[tup] to Lady Indigo

I have another proposal I want to bring up, this is one who was removed years ago for supposedly failing in heinousness, but I am not sure that is entirely the case.

What is the work?

Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer is a 90s serial killer movie about the Villain Protagonist Henry, an emotionless, remorseless serial killer who murders many people and allies with the perverted Otis in his spree.

Who is Otis? What has he done?

Otis is Henry's roommate, and unlike the emotionless, monotone Henry, Otis is a lustful dick who takes in his young sister Becky to hide her from her abusive husband, while secretly lusting after her.

Otis regularly makes inappropriate advances towards Becky, kissing her on the lips and trying to grope her, and after witnessing Henry kill two prostitutes, Otis takes an interest in his killing and becomes partners with Henry.

After selling drugs to a high school boy, Otis gropes his leg and tries to come into him, but the boy punches Otis in the nose and flees. Otis then expresses to Henry his desire to kill the boy, and asks for Henry's help, but Henry talks him out of it, as it would draw too much attention. Instead, Henry gives Otis a gun, and urges him to shoot an innocent bystander, which Otis does happily while laughing, killing a man who stopped to help Henry and Otis with a broken down car. .

When Otis brings Henry along to buy a new TV, the shop owner treats the two poorly, and Henry stabs him in the hand with a soldering iron. Otis reacts by beginning to strangle the man, laughing and holding him in place as Henry repeatedly stabs him before Henry smashes a TV on his head and kills him. Otis later videotapes a pair of men assaulting a homeless man in a park, chuckling at the whole scene

The two later break into the home of a couple and their son, where they assault and tie up the husband. While Henry films him, Otis molests and abuses the woman of the house, showing his desire to rape her. When Henry snaps the neck of their son and stabs the father, Otis kills the woman by snapping her neck as well, before continuing to molest her body and commit necrophilia, only for an annoyed Henry to tell him to knock it off. Otis often watches the tape back on repeat with sick amusement.

Planning to join Henry on his countrywide killing spree, Otis walks in on Henry and Becky kissing. Otis waits for Henry to leave the house to buy cigarettes before assaulting and raping Becky, beginning to strangle her as he finishes up. Henry arrives and knocks Otis off Becky, but Otis gets the upper hand and smugly attempts to stab Henry to death, only for Becky to stab Otis in the eye and enable Henry to finish the job by stabbing him in the chest.

Does Otis have a Freudian Excuse or other mitigating factors?

No, Otis has nothing. His father sexually abused Becky, but Otis shows no signs of the same happening to him, and though he is shocked when he first sees Henry kill a pair of hookers, he is quick to go along with Henry in his crimes.

Is Otis sufficiently heinous?

Otis not being heinous enough was what got him cut in the first place, but I am not sure if that holds up completely. Henry has a higher bodycount—before Otis joins in, Henry kills at least 8 people, and Henry often takes the lead in their murders—but Otis not only happily goes along with the crimes, but also has crimes unique to him.

Otis shoots a man dead, strangles the shopowner while Henry stabs him, sexually assaults the woman of the family they attack and snaps her neck before trying to rape her corpse, plans to kill the high school boy who rejected his advances before Henry talks him out of it, and then rapes and nearly strangles his own sister to death before trying to kill Henry for stopping him.

Henry may have more of a bodycount, but Otis did not have as much of a time for his spree as Henry, and Otis has the unique crimes of sexual assault and attempted rape, trying to molest a teenager then planning to kill him, and raping and trying to kill his own sister.

It's not the same bodycount, but I think Otis targeting his own sister, a teenage boy, and having more sexual goals for his victims than Henry.

Final Verdict?

Even though he is outheinoused by Henry in bodycount, I think Otis has just enough uniqueness to him to match up to Henry's higher bodycount.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#198677: Jan 18th 2020 at 11:14:51 AM

[tup] Mecha One. Speaking of LEGO, did we ever discuss Overlord from Lego Ninjago, he was pretty evil last I checked.

Also, I just got Dragon Ball Z Kakarot, so I’m gonna be busy on that for a while. I got a feeling that I’m REALLY gonna enjoy it.

EDIT: [tup] Otis as well.

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Jan 18th 2020 at 11:18:13 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#198678: Jan 18th 2020 at 11:42:50 AM

Yes to Otis. Why did Henry prevent the rape? It's not standards, because A) otherwise he'd have to be cut, and B) he kills Becky himself later.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#198679: Jan 18th 2020 at 11:48:58 AM

Henry is a bone hard sociopath. He does things at times because of how they 'feel'...Otis was being a problem, but later Becky became a liability, too. Hence why he emotionlessly tells her "Guess I love you too" at the end, before he murders her during the night.

Yes to Otis.

AgeOfTropeEmpire Handsome Head of Hyperion Since: Nov, 2018
Handsome Head of Hyperion
#198680: Jan 18th 2020 at 11:49:39 AM

[up][up] Henry finds sex and anything sexual disgusting, possibly because he associates it with his mother who he recalls as a "whore." Henry also had something of a minor attachment to Becky to help explain it, but it wasn't enough to prevent him from killing her just because he felt like it.

[up][nja]'d. This also is a solid reasoning.

Edited by AgeOfTropeEmpire on Jan 18th 2020 at 11:52:39 AM

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#198682: Jan 18th 2020 at 11:56:54 AM

[tup] Otis. Man, been forever since I’ve seen this movie.

It's Spooky Month!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#198683: Jan 18th 2020 at 12:02:01 PM

Ah, so more of a whim then standard. Makes sense. Also, so weird to imagine Yondu as a freaking Serial Killer.

EDIT: Incidentally, MCU!Red Skull now has his own page. I requested the change.

Edited by ACW on Jan 18th 2020 at 3:06:48 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#198684: Jan 18th 2020 at 12:18:48 PM

[tup]Otis

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#198686: Jan 18th 2020 at 12:20:48 PM

[tup]Otis.

Why so serious?
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#198687: Jan 18th 2020 at 12:33:29 PM

[tup]Otis

I want to propose these images of Shockwave from Fall of Cybertron prequel comic:

Shockwave sadistically beats Grimlock down: 1

And Shockwave torturing Grimlock: 1 2 3

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#198689: Jan 18th 2020 at 1:29:47 PM

Yeah, sure to Otis. The "rapey creep" aspect distinguishes him enough.

I think I'm feeling about well enough to settle back. Got some effortposts, including a villain (maybe two) I'm thinking need relitigation.

Firstly, I have another Indiana Jones villain I forgot about! This one is from a comic miniseries that was published through Dark Horse Comics back in the early 90s called Thunder in the Orient. Our villain is the Japanese general Masashi Kyojo.

Who is General Kyojo? What has he done?

A high-ranking officer in 1938 era Imperial Japan, Kyojo is a vile and uncompromising man who introduces himself murdering a crooked treasure hunter he had promised a percentage by shooting him through the neck, the second the man turns over vital information about Kyojo's target. Said target is the Covenant of Buddha, a supposed mystical scroll able to unite all of Asia together. All well and good for Kyojo—who of course intends to turn this united Asia into a military dictatorship, with ambitions of one day destroying the West as well.

Kyojo's pursuit of the Covenant across China brings him into conflict with several unwelcome parties, including an army of bandits—which Kyojo slaughters the ever-loving shit out of to “announce his presence” while leaving the remainder to carry the message—and Indy himself. Kyojo has his Giant Mook hitman apply his “special skills” to Indy and his allies, resulting in numerous soldiers Indy is traveling with gruesomely hacked apart and murdered. Kyojo snipes and kills his Giant Mook before he can reach Indy, intending to follow Indy to the Covenant instead of laboring over the effort of finding it himself. Kyojo tops himself by forcing three of his men to commit hari-kiri to their prior failure to apprehend Jones and continues to hunt Indy for the rest of the comic.

In the final issue, Kyojo orders a village Indy is being held prisoner at airbombed, resulting in the fiery death of dozens as Kyojo gleefully watches. Kyojo finally tracks Indy to the temple where their final confrontation ends with Kyojo knocked out and helpless as the temple starts to collapse upon him.

Any mitigating factors?

Alright, Kyojo's admittedly probably just cutting by the standard here, but I don't think he actually flunks it. I reiterate there are boatloads of Indiana Jones villains who do fuck-all onscreen and have nasty end goals on paper that aren't explored anywhere near to their full potential. Kyojo does more than most any other villain in any select Indiana Jones comic book—more than the current qualifier. His wicked Bad Boss traits and inclination toward mass murder make me think he passes decently.

Conclusion?

Sure, why not? One more Indy baddie for the list.

Edited by Scraggle on Jan 18th 2020 at 2:33:53 AM

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#198695: Jan 18th 2020 at 1:51:18 PM

[tup]Kyojo

Welcome back scraggle

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#198696: Jan 18th 2020 at 1:54:42 PM

[tup] Kyojo. Does JUST enough to push him into CM territory (and for the curious, he does more than Makimura, but Makimura has higher aspirations, so they're both good).

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#198697: Jan 18th 2020 at 1:58:52 PM

[tup] Kyojo. Good to hear you're feeling better, Scrags.

  • Legion Of The Damned's "Nocturnal Predator": The Nocturnal Predator, Richard Ramirez himself, is a sadistic Satanist who prowls the night murdering and raping innocents. Introduced slitting a man’s throat and brutally torturing a woman to death after shooting her husband, Ramirez would go on to terrorize the entire city with his murders. Kidnapping women and raping them, Ramirez offered them as sacrifices to the Dark Lord himself.

It's Spooky Month!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#198698: Jan 18th 2020 at 2:20:59 PM

And a yes to Kyojo...in honor of Scrags' return, here's one from...Nightside.

I give you Varney the Vampire.

Who is Varney?

Twenty years before Dracula came to England, there was Varney the Vampire. The king of the vampires, Varney almost drowned the country in blood, slaughtering people by the truckload, massacring entire houses of victims until he was repelled. Niow, in Nightside, Vampires are roaming, rotting corpses that use glamours to look human, Varney no exception. Seemingly defeated, Varney threw himself into Mt. Vesuvius...just to get people off his back and hide, rebuild and plot.

In Tales from the Nightside, our man John Taylor locates a dark plot where Varney is behind it...see, the vampires are plotting an invasion and taking victims in huge numbers. Locating Varney, John barely escapes him, as Varney intends an invasion of the Nightside, to massacre everything there or turn it to raise a vampire army and conquer all he can.

So, it turns out Varney has been busy: he's turned tons of people into vampires and brainwashed heroes into serving as his muscle...more than that, Varney is all but invincible, immune to worldly weaponry and vampire weaknesses. Not ideal...arriving with the heroes, including our dear Shotgun Suzie, John sees that Varney's massacres and victims? He has created a literal ocean of blood, human remains stretching for miles in the gore. With so many vampires to feed, varney kidnaps or lures people in, hundreds as prey....maybe people who buy into the twilight stuff, others who want new thrills...but vampires aren't sexy here at all. Once taken in, the huge vampire packs simply rip into them, savaging them agonizingly to take the blood. John sees a huge amount of innocents being butchered and leads the fight to save who he can. One young goth girl is witnessed ripped into by a vampire and though John and Suzie kill the vampire, she's too far gone to be anything but euthanized.

Encountering Varney who intends on bringing this slaughter to the Nightside, John reveals his own plan...he's brought in the worms and maggots from the Necropolis, the Nightside's cemetery...who are no longer 'of this world' due to feeding off the unique energies of the Nightside and the corpses stored there. And the vampires? Are just living corpses...John unleashes a rain of worms and maggots who begin feasting on the vampires, including an agonized Varney. John seizes a magical sword from another world, wielded by one of Varney's slaves and when Varney is being devoured from inside out, ends the vampire with one well placed decapitating blow, revealing him as nothing more than a desiccated corpse.

Heinous standard?

Massive body count. Varney has been slaughtering for centuries, killing hundreds and then thousands, over and over, with huge aims. Pass, given he has no resources compared to others on the list.

Mitigating Qualities?

while Varney in the Victorian novel was a tormented beast, this Varney is a violent, savage monster who glories in his vampiric nature and loves murder and slaughter, with no care for anyone or anything.

Conclusion?

A happy yes for the King of the Vampires.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#198699: Jan 18th 2020 at 2:21:37 PM

Also, so this can go up:

  • Dead 7: Johnny Vermillion is Apocalypta's lunatic of a right-hand, and a sadist barely able to keep in his giggles at all the slaughter he surrounds himself with. Johnny always spearheads the zombie attacks himself, gleefully having entire towns devoured while riding into the fray to kill as many people as he can himself. Johnny kneecaps and executes the mayor of a town he tries to lay waste to, and stabs Daisy Jane before feeding her to the zombies, forcing her boyfriend Billy to watch and hysterically mocking his agony.

Edited by Scraggle on Jan 18th 2020 at 3:22:57 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#198700: Jan 18th 2020 at 2:23:43 PM

[tup] to Varney and Kyojo

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA

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