TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#198601: Jan 16th 2020 at 3:47:31 PM

That's a shock. Why'd Lindelof leave? I guess to avoid Seasonal Rot, something both HBO and Lindelof know well.

Edited by ACW on Jan 16th 2020 at 6:49:53 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#198602: Jan 16th 2020 at 4:16:45 PM

From what I heard the show had resolved all its main plot points in season 1

Things are really about to get Fun around here
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#198603: Jan 16th 2020 at 4:39:25 PM

[tup] Dogknife and Wolf.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#198604: Jan 16th 2020 at 4:54:21 PM

[tup] Doggy and Wolfy

[up][up] It's probably best just to end it there. Not every show has to go on for more than one season.

It's Spooky Month!
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#198606: Jan 16th 2020 at 6:14:12 PM

[tup] Dogknife and The Wolf.

Edited by Beast on Jan 16th 2020 at 8:14:30 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#198607: Jan 16th 2020 at 6:22:11 PM

[tup] for Lord Dogknife and the Wolf.

Second half of the InterWorld collab with Lighty. And it just so happens to be my first EP for this year.

Who Is She?

Lady Indigo is The Dragon for the aforementioned Lord Dogknife.

What Does She Do?

Lady Indigo first appears after Joseph Walks for the first time, where she captures him after placing a spell on him that forced him to obey her every command. After being held prisoner aboard the Lacrimae Mundi spaceship, Joseph eventually escapes with the help of Jay—one of his alternate versions of himself. Determined to find him again, she later sets a trap by planting a spell on a talisman disguised as a beacon. Joseph, now working alongside several other Walkers, uncovers the beacon and he and a team investigate the location, and end up springing Lady Indigo's trap. She and her minions get into a battle with Joseph and the Walkers, and she successfully captures them (except Joseph, thanks to his mudluff Hue saving him at the last second). Eventually, Lady Indigo encounters Joseph yet again aboard Lord Dogknife's ship the Malefic while he's trying to save his comrades. Long story short, Joseph succeeds in freeing his friends, and they all destroy the Malefic and escape, while Lady Indigo is killed as the Malefic capsizes.

Except no.

Turns out she survived the ship's destruction, spending two years within the Nowhere-at-All growing stronger and feasting, her body changing into a spider-like monstrosity. Lady Indigo returns in Eternity's Wheel, where she lures Joseph and his team of Walkers into another trap. Unlike last time, she has no intention of simply capturing them; she goes around and starts killing some of the Walkers one by one, slowly draining the life from them while Joseph is immobile and can do nothing but listen. Joseph begs Lady Indigo to let his friends go, but she declines, opting to devour his friends alive and then turn him into her personal slave yet again. Before this can happen, Joseph's new recruit, Josephine, manages to stop her from killing anyone else, moments before help arrives. Joseph and the Walkers escape, but Josephine is gravely wounded and implanted with a soul link (basically a tracker). Josephine, at her request, is Mercy Killed so Lady Indigo won't find the other Walkers' location. Towards the end of the book, Lady Indigo is reunited with Lord Dogknife, and there're just hours (minutes?) away from their goal of succeeding with FrostNight. Before it can succeed though, a colossal battle commences between Joseph and all of his allies and the HEX and Binary forces. In the end, FrostNight is stopped, the Multiverse is saved, HEX and Binary are still active (but crippled) and Lady Indigo and Lord Dogknife...

...

...

Are doing things and shiz...somewhere...

Freudian Excuse?

Nah.

Mitigating Factors?

None. She's a Psycho Supporter of Lord Dogknife, but nothing indicates that they have genuine feelings for each other. She's just a The Dragon willingly working alongside her boss. She also treats Joseph very kindly while he's aboard the Lacrimae Mundi, but the entire time she has some kind of magical obedient spell placed on him, where he's forced to act as her slave. She also doesn't attempt to harm Joseph, but this is only because HEX needed him alive and unharmed so they could use his body to power several ships within Lord Dogknife's fleet.

Heinous Standard Issues?

No problems here. Alongside assisting Lord Dogknife with his schemes (and kidnapping Joseph to begin with), there's also her luring several Walkers into a trap so she can kill them all one by one, and mortally wounding Josephina just so she would unintentionally lead Lady Indigo to more Walkers to feed from.

So pass here.

Final Verdict?

I say yes to her.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#198609: Jan 16th 2020 at 6:51:29 PM

[tup] Dogknife, Wolf, Indigo

Has anyone covered the Sinister movies? I recently watched them, and while the first film keeps the villain pretty enigmatic, the second one gives off kind of a Video Game!Slender Man feel with how he communicates with his victims. I searched and didn't see any discussions, but figured I'd ask.

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
beeruckzII Since: Aug, 2011
#198610: Jan 16th 2020 at 6:55:37 PM

Quick question about Complete Monster quotes; if I were to propose a quote to put on the sub-page, does it have to be dialogue? Can it also be description from a story, like a paragraph or something? I'll make sure that it's not too long or anything. I just need to make sure whether or not a description is enough, with or without dialogue.

Thanks. :)

PS. If you're confused about what I mean, I can give an example.

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#198611: Jan 16th 2020 at 7:06:54 PM

[tup] Indigo

Well, I've been pretty slow on EPs this week (been relaxing as much as I can before school starts back next week), so here's a quick music EP for the week.

What Is the Work?

Legion Of The Damned is a Dutch Thrash Metal band from Geldrop, Netherlands.

Nocturnal Predator” (Lyrics here) is a song from their album Feel the Blade about a serial killer. One who terrorized the streets of America, committing acts of murder and rape for the dark lord himself. His name, if you haven’t figured it out already…

Who Is he?

Richard Ramirez (his name isn’t mentioned, but it’s obvious it’s supposed to be him), also called “The Nocturnal Predator” and “The Night Stalker”, is a sadistic Serial Killer and Satanist who goes around killing people in brutal ways.

What has he done?

Creeping around town looking for people to kill, Ramirez is introduced sliting a victim’s throat. “More slashing will soon follow.” Later on breaking into a couple's house and shooting a man in front of his spouse, Ramirez immediately after carved “up the wife in neck, face and groin, satisfying his sadistic delight” before gouging out her eyeballs. Capturing several women, Ramirez raped them and made them praise the Devil, sacrificing them to Satan by drawing pentagrams on their bodies. Eventually caught and placed on death row, Ramirez’s murders still struck fear within the city, terrorizing the entire populace with his brutal kills.

Redeeming Qualities?

Zilch.

Heinousness?

Only villain, settles it. The story I feel has somewhat of a story (killer murders and rapes people, and is later caught) and what Ramirez did to his victims was pretty gruesome.

Conclusion

I think he’s a keep.

It's Spooky Month!
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
AgeOfTropeEmpire Handsome Head of Hyperion Since: Nov, 2018
Handsome Head of Hyperion
#198614: Jan 16th 2020 at 7:44:59 PM

[tup] to Lady Indigo and Richard Ramirez

Now here is Dennis Rader/BTK

What is the work?

Mindhunter is a Netflix original crime series that is based on the life of real-life FBI agent John Douglas, though it is often a very dramatized show with fictional characters in place here and there.

Holden Ford is a young FBI agent who is fascinated with the mind of killers and, with the help of older, gruffer agent Bill Tench, he starts a branch of the FBI specifically revolving around interviewing captured serial killers, and using their knowledge and insights to solve ongoing cases.

Who is Dennis Rader? What has he done?

Dennis Rader, aka "BTK" or "BTK Killer" (Bind, Torture, Kill) is a recurring character in the series, source of many of its Cold Opens before becoming a notable case in the first half of Season 2 before the Atlanta Monster case takes precedence.

An apparently unassuming man working as an ADT serviceman in Wichita, Kansas who lives with his wife and infant daughter and is shown to be a major Jerkass to people in his everyday life, Dennis Rader began stalking a variety of people as targets for his first murder before selecting Julie Otero and her 11 year old daughter Josephine as his first victims. Breaking into the Otero household one day, Rader messed up and broke in on a day that father/husband Joseph Otero and 9 year old son Joseph Jr are home as well as Julie and Josephine.

Tying up the entire family, Rader put plastic bags over the heads of Joseph and Julie, keeping their kids to watch as the parents asphyxiated. Rader then did the same to Joseph Jr, pulling a chair up and sitting down to watch as the boy slowly died over the course of 4 to 6 minutes. Rader then focuses on his favored target of the attack, Josephine, taking her down to the basement where he slowly hanged her from a pipe and watched her die before getting off on her body.

Rader approximately next broke into 21 year old Kathryn Bright's house and waited for her to come home, but she showed up with her teenage brother Kevin. Tying the two up and heavily implied to begin assaulting Kathryn, Rader tried to strangle Kevin before shooting him in the face 3 times when Kevin struggled. Kevin managed to escape, and Rader, in a panic, quickly stabbed Kathryn to death in the chest and fled the scene.

Rader later killed 24 year old Shirley Vian by breaking into her home, tying her up and strangling her, followed by 25 year old Nancy Fox in the same manner (the show does not focus on these very much, hence the shorter descripts of their deaths). Rader then broke into the home of 63 year old Anna Williams with plans to kill her, but the woman arrived home late and Rader got frustrated and left.

In the present of the show, Rader has sent out letters to the press, dubbing himself "BTK" and claiming his 7 victims so far, all of whom he took souvenirs from. On his private, personal time, Rader dresses up in his victims' clothes and engages in autoerotic asphyxiation to relive the memories, until the day his wife catches him. Humiliated and knowing how close he could be to being caught, Rader seems to end his spree for the moment, however continues his reliving of his crimes, with his final scene showcasing his assortment of collected souvenirs from his victims as he continues to dress up as his victims.

Finally, in a notable scene, Bill Tench is looking over old case files and notices a resemblance between BTK's knot-tying and procedure to the "Broomstick Killer" case, of a murderer who attacked a young mother and her son, raping both of them with a broomstick while forcing the other to watch before stabbing them to death in the throats. Though no solid connection is made, Rader is at least partially implied to potentially be the killer, and Bill certainly has begun to come to that conclusion.

Does Dennis Rader have a Freudian Excuse or other mitigating factors?

No excuses, Rader is deliberately set up to be a contradiction to many of the other killers of the series like Ed Kemper and Jerry Brudos who have excuses and tragic backstories, Rader is portrayed as a petty, dickish Jerkass who does what he does for power.

Rader has a wife and infant daughter, and though his trope page even lists him as Happily Married, I would not say this is totally legitimate. Rader has very little interactions with his wife, his only scenes being her catching him during one of his reenactments of his victims and later forcing him to sleep on the couch and read self-help books about "sexual deviancy." There is no love shown between the two of them, and Rader is actively trying to put up a front as a "normal person," so his wife and kid are very likely just part of his mask.

Rader doesn't have much screentime himself—rounding out at about 15 minutes, all of which are Cold Open scenes or post-credit ones—but what we see of him shows his personality of a Jerkass Control Freak and Sadist.

Is Rader sufficiently heinous?

In a series about depraved serial killers, a high heinous standard is to be expected. Ed Kemper severed the heads of several women and raped the corpses, David Berkowitz shot many couples to death, and Wayne Williams (a CM too) has over a dozen deaths of young boys attributed to him.

I think Rader makes the standard, however. Given that many of the aforementioned crimes are Offscreen Villainy, Rader has the unique murder method of tortuously killing his victims by means of strangling/asphyxiating them, and though none of the murders themselves are onscreen, many crime scene photos of corpses are seen throughout the show, and very heavy descriptions are given of the Otero and Bright attacks.

And yes, Rader did eventually kill 3 more people in real life, and likely would go onto do so in the show should it continue, but for the purposes of the time period of the show, he had killed 7 so far.

Final Verdict?

I think he is a [tup]

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#198615: Jan 16th 2020 at 7:52:06 PM

[tup] Indigo, Night Stalker, and BTK.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#198618: Jan 16th 2020 at 8:38:30 PM

Tentative [tup] to BTK

Edited by SumDumNerd on Jan 16th 2020 at 9:38:38 AM

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#198619: Jan 16th 2020 at 9:27:23 PM

[tup] BTK.

Fun Fact: The real killer was caught after he asked if he could be traced if he sent the police his messages through floppy disk. The police obviously jumped at the opportunity to lie and trick him into giving them evidence needed to find his name.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
#198621: Jan 16th 2020 at 11:35:08 PM

[tup] Ramirez and BTK.

Do we have any Cleaveland Mad Butcher as complete monster?

IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#198622: Jan 17th 2020 at 12:27:41 AM

[tup] Rader.

By the way, I have one quote to propose here.

"[Susamaru] was fooled into believing she was one of the Twelve Kizuki and forced to fight... and then Kibutsuji's curse killed her. There was no hope for her. After dying, even her bones disappeared without a trace. Is that the price for taking human life? Kibutsuji... he mistreats even those who admire him. He was undeniably... a true demon."
Tanjiro Kamado on Muzan Kibutsuji, Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba, Chapter 19 "Together Forever"

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#198624: Jan 17th 2020 at 12:38:43 AM

[tup]Indigo, Night Stalker, and BTK

Fun fact Rader is the inspiration behind at least three other cms. The Clovehitch Killer, Frank McNare and Robert "Bob" Anderson.

Though I thought the broomstick killer aka Kenneth Mc Duff was a separate unrelated Serial Killer.

Edited by miraculous on Jan 17th 2020 at 12:48:55 PM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#198625: Jan 17th 2020 at 2:19:42 AM

beeruckzII: That's fine. Look at the page quotes for Film & Literature.

[tup] Indigo, Ramirez (his second incarnation), BTK.


Total posts: 326,048
Top