TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#198576: Jan 16th 2020 at 11:55:08 AM

Alright, part of a joint post with Tyk:

What's the work?

Interworld is a fantasy trilogy by Neil Gaiman and Michael Reaves (with Reaves' daughter Mallory later doing a lot of the work when Michael's Parkinson's Disease rendered him unable to do anything)...the book revolves around Joey Harker who meets Joey Harker, and many other Joey Harkers...alternate universe selves set to save magic and science alike from dark forces, where worlds converge: Interworld is an organization dedicated to this, and a great 'reset' coming known as FrostNight when reality will be wiped clean...keeping an equilibrium between science and magic.. Those who go between are called the Walkers....enter one of our top villains, the Lord Dogknife.

Who is Dogknife?

A sadistic, savage pirate and massive goblin, Dogknife is a raider who serves HEX, the magical side of things, with designs of power. Dogknife leads his airship across the worlds, hunting down the Walkers, and special children...when he finds them, he uses them as fuel for HEX in a horrific manner: Dogknife captures them and in his cauldron, boils them down to their essence, harvesting their magic power while keeping their souls enslaved in agony through the ship. In enormous numbers to boot, all so he can power his ship to travel and raid more while killing wantonly where he wishes to overthrow the balance of the universe.

Dogknife intends on Joey and friends becoming fuel for his ship, but Joey and the others do manage to escape, throwing Dogknife's plans out of whack as they cripple his operation. The souls are freed and Joey even takes pity on Dogknife when they come for him...Dogknife is not remotely grateful and escapes as a result, his plans at an end.

...until the end of book 2 when he reveals he's sold out Hex in a sense to play both sides, allying with the tech force Binary...Dogknife? is going to speed along Frost Night and force a reset, wiping out everything, with his compatriot Lady Indigo, so they can rebuild it as exalted beings together, Dogknife being one of the few remaining who shall reign, using an alternate named Joaquim to fuel it....this leads to a massive battle as Joey and the others are able to stop Frost Night at the end...what happens to Dogknife as he's last seen fighting there is unclear. He may be erased with the rest, but HEX and BINARY are still out there, even if reality has been saved, Lord Dogknife may still live.

Heinousness?

a murderous pirate who boils young Walkers down painfully to their very souls just to power his ship not enough? Throw in Omnicidal Maniac. Along with Lady Indigo, he's the worst there is.

Mitigating Qualities?

No care for his crew or companions. Dogknife is in it for carnage and glory...even when Joey saves him, he shows not a speck of gratitude and is fine murdering him. Pass.

Conclusion?

an easy keeper.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#198577: Jan 16th 2020 at 11:59:40 AM

[tup] Lord Dogknife. I'm guessing Tyk's doing Indigo?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#198578: Jan 16th 2020 at 11:59:47 AM

[tup]Dogknife

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#198579: Jan 16th 2020 at 12:01:30 PM

[tup]Dogknife.

Why so serious?
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#198580: Jan 16th 2020 at 12:19:44 PM

He is indeed, and one other for the moment:

What's the work?

Grim Fairy Tales: Myths and Legends is a spinoff of Grimm fairy Tales around the time the lore was deepening...so, okay, you have the earth and multiple other realms: Oz, Neverland, Wonderland, the magic realm of Myst and others...the Guardian is empowered to defend the earth from threats, such as The Dark One, the ultimate Big Bad of the GFT 'verse...usually with the pwoer of stories.

Many of the characters are Falsebloods, children of nonhumans known as Highborns. One such Falseblood is Brittney Waters, who appears in the first ever issue...and the one hunting her?

The Wolf.

Who is The Wolf?

An assassin sent by the Dark One and his forces, including Baba Yaga, the Wolf is a sadistic monster who enjoys murdering others....now Brittney? In the early days of GFT, it would usually involve Sela, earth's guardian, giving someone a harsh lesson by making them see their situation with a macabre fairytale...Brittney's story was Little Red Riding Hood where she took the place of a beautiful girl in the woods, hunted by a savage werewolf who turned out to be her former lover Samuel...all just a dream...except the odd scratches on her and the leaves and twigs in her bd...

All grown up now, Brittney is a doctor as a psychiatric institute, helping to treat patients there...the facility is (of course) in the middle of the woods when the Wolf arrives and systematically butchers the guards there, in painful and gory ways, before killing the lights. Targeting Brittney who is unaware of her own heritage at this point, the Wolf begins to target the patients first, sadistically murdering its way through the facility, killing the lights and communications, disguising itself as its victims (it can shapeshift) and very callously and cruelly toying with its victims. The head doctor is found with his heart ripped out and the place descends into paranoia.

Brittney tries to save the patients, as the Wolf intends on zero witnesses...her love interest heads with a security guard to get the power back when the Wolf surprises them in another form...said love interest makes it back, only for someone to note he's forgotten his shoes...the Wolf? "I always forget the shoes..." before ripping her apart, and then tearing apart everyone else in the vicinity.

Brittney and the few survivors flee into the woods with the Wolf close at hand, savoring the chase, when Brittney unlocks her innate powers...she has the blood of a wolf being as well, and directs a nearby wolf pack to help them....the wolves, who had in truth been protecting Brittney since an early age, arrive and fight the assassin, eventually overwhelming him and dragging him off into the underbrush for a gory end.

Brittney is found by the good guys, eventually deciding to pledge herself to defending earth's realm with other Falsebloods.

Heinousness?

So, yeah, Grimm is bleak and dark. The standard is high but for a low-rent assassin without much going for him, the Wolf is a psychotic killer with no major powers going for him, unlike most of the others. He just wants to come in, kill and eat a fuckton of people, murder his target and then go do it all again. His sadistic savagery is well over others in his tier, and well below those who have major powers like the Sea Witch, the Piper, Pan, the Mad Hatter, etc.

So, I'd say pass.

Mitigating Qualities?

Nothing. The Wolf's just a monster who loves his job...and killing literally everything else that he can kill in the vicinity. Nothing would prevent him walking up to Brittney and finishing her with a well placed slash, but he needs to draw this out as viciously and horribly as humanly possible.

Conclusion?

I'd say the Wolf is a keeper.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#198581: Jan 16th 2020 at 12:24:53 PM

[tup]Wolf

I'm curious which fairy tail has the most number of cms from adaptations of it. Hansel and Gretel ? Red riding hood and Bluebeard are up their.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#198582: Jan 16th 2020 at 12:33:20 PM

Yes to the Wolf, with a couple of questions:

  • Main series part of the CM page, or "Others"?
  • IIRC the Dark One gets Even Evil Has Loved Ones; what about the ones with major powers? I know Pan counts, and if it's the same Hatter the Jabberwocky corrupted that's an issue; what about this Sea Witch and Piper?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#198583: Jan 16th 2020 at 12:38:37 PM

Piper...maybe. He's bad in his intro stories, and he's still out there but he appears so seldomly.

Malec has a few disqualifying factors...as bad as he is, he loved his daughter and genuinely appreciated a servant who sacrificed his life for him. The Hatter...no, absolutely not. Johnny Liddle is a Tragic Villain in every respect, a troubled boy with severe mental issues who became a murderer and was thrown into Wonderland where he became poisoned by it and became a monster. I could never support him up in a million years. His end is treated for pure tragedy, and his mind was warped by his uncle raping him as a child until violence was his only outlet...then the sister he loved and trusted threw him into Wonderland.

The Sea Witch might actually hit the heinous standard, but her backstory was being used as The Mistress by a god and then her children being murdered by said god's jealous wife before she was turned into a monster by it...she's a monster now, but it's no real question as to why.

Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 16th 2020 at 12:45:18 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#198584: Jan 16th 2020 at 12:47:11 PM

Well go ahead on piper if you feel he makes standard. We have tor up whose arc is I think still going on. And if he appears so rarely over time. No reason not to put him up at least for now

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#198585: Jan 16th 2020 at 12:47:50 PM

Ah, same Johnny that's mentioned in Jabberwocky's entry?

And I'll ask again: Main continuity, or Others (if the latter, I guess Myths and Legends would go between the Human Traffickers and the Robyn Hood stuff)?

DelphineTheDelphox I thought sharks were my friends. from The Alola Region Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I thought sharks were my friends.
#198586: Jan 16th 2020 at 12:56:15 PM

Yay to Doggo and Wolfy.

RIP KissAnime.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#198587: Jan 16th 2020 at 12:56:57 PM

Also, here's what's pending:

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#198590: Jan 16th 2020 at 1:49:38 PM

Yes to 50557, Dogknife and the Wolf.

Here is an interesting question, which franchise pages do you think have room to grow in the future? With Masters of the Universe, you have the She-Ra cartoon ending and two new He-Man cartoons (one is PG-13) and a live-action movie. With Star Trek, you have the Picard show, another movie, a Nickelodeon cartoon, and a Section 31 show, lots of opportunities for new monsters in those two franchises.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#198593: Jan 16th 2020 at 2:44:32 PM

[tup] to Lord Dogknife and The Wolf.

Mir: My money's either on Bluebeard or the Pied Piper.

AgeOfTropeEmpire Handsome Head of Hyperion Since: Nov, 2018
Handsome Head of Hyperion
#198594: Jan 16th 2020 at 3:20:29 PM

[tup] to Dogknife and the Wolf

I had made the decision to wait on Dennis Rader from Mindhunter, but seeing as the actors' contracts have just been dropped, confirming that the series either is over or won't be coming back for several years, I think I will go ahead and propose him if everybody is ok with that.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#198595: Jan 16th 2020 at 3:21:56 PM

Go ahead says I.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#198597: Jan 16th 2020 at 3:34:43 PM

[tup] 50557, Dogknife and the Wolf.

Go ahead, Age. I'd love to see a BTK EP.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#198598: Jan 16th 2020 at 3:44:37 PM

And answering my own questions, looks like the Wolf will go to the second group.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#198599: Jan 16th 2020 at 3:45:09 PM

Age: Go right ahead with Rader.

Also? It does not seem there will be a S2 of Watchmen

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#198600: Jan 16th 2020 at 3:47:29 PM

Huh well probably for the best. Show was received we'll and sometimes it's best to just go out on a high note.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

Total posts: 326,048
Top